*** 1998! *** %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% On Tue, 23 Dec 1997 19:19:40 -0800, Chuck Silverman wrote: >I am just beginning to use Netscape 3.01 Gold for html design. Does >anyone have any ideas as to what I should do and how to do it to make >the most of my time and energies. Experimentation ("learning by doing") is not such a bad way to learn to write HTML. However, and hopefully this occurs before you develop any bad habits, you'll need to add to this a little research on HTML authoring. In writing HTML, it is common to write a page, test it, discover errors, and then have to fix the errors. You might say it's an iterative or recursive process. Assuming you truly intend to write HTML for the WWW, this iterative process is guaranteed to occur if you continue using Navigator Gold. It is notorious for spewing out sloppy HTML code! In contrast, it is possible to do everything right the first time and never have to return to your documents to make repairs. Whichever approach you prefer, my recommendation is to ditch Navigator Gold and equip yourself with a common text editor that will allow you to save your text files in .htm or .html formats. Then combine this with some excellent technical guidance, which you will find in the following Web resources (and you'll be well on your way): Designing For Multiple Browsers Without Being Bland concise, sober, and BRIEF description of a good Web authoring strategy. Stephen Traub. Getting Started With HTML primer to Learning HTML 3.2 by Examples, a comprehensive and succinct guide to writing standard HTML. Jukka Korpela. The WDG Reference Section excellent background information and technical details on HTML authoring. Web Design Group. Designing For The Web a series of informative articles on Web site design, including A Web Site is a Harsh Mistress & Rules of Thumb. The special focus is on complementing Web design skills with competence in interface design. Don't miss Web Site Design. Diane Wilson. Useit.com: Usable Information Technology an expansive resource on usability and user interface issues--featuring several extremely challenging and well-researched essays on Web design and style. Jakob Nielsen. Understanding HTML Outstanding presentation of HTML basics, by an Aussie with a distinctly gentle and kindly writing style. Dianne Gorman. Hints For Web Authors short yet insightful historical analysis of conventional vs. Web publishing, Hints for Web Authors is replete with solid recommendations on how to succeed with the latter, including a few pragmatic suggestions mixed in there for good measure, "...in hopes that others may find 'em useful." Warren Steel. HyperText Markup Language World Wide Web (W3C) home page for HTML. Here you will find pointers to specifications for HTML, guidelines for how to use HTML to the best effect and pointers to related work at W3C. WC3. Toby Brown %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% the friendly search engine simulator at http://www.delorie.com/web/ses.cgi %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Happy New Year to everyone in this NG who have been so helpful throughout the year. Happy New Year to you too, Bill. -- Regards, Chip Ciammaichella %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% The verb "to enhance" seems to lack any meaning on the Web; it simply reflects an author's own emotions about his pages. Jukka Korpela %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Stupid use of frames undoubtedy causes more problems than the best possible usage. But the great majority of framed pages falls into the stupid category. We must always remember that about 50 % of people are below the average, and the majority of the rest is just a little above the average. Jukka Korpela %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% On Sat, 3 Jan 1998, Sam Schlansky wrote: > >Still, with your stated policy of "screw them", why am I telling you > >this? > > I dunno. > > Why? Because the important recipients of the message are the lurkers. On usenet, those who post questions are just cannon-fodder. Next? Alan J. Flavell %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Gerry McFatridge wrote: > David Henderson wrote: > >2. How do I bookmark a frameset? As an example, use the same URL as > > above, and select the title "Emissary", which should load the guide > > page for that episode into the right frame. I want a bookmark that > > will allow me to simply go into my bookmarks window and select the > > bookmark from the list, and I will then see a frameset with the > > table of contents on the left and that episode page on the right. > Don't know of a browser that will do that. Seems to me > that's a browser issue not a tag issue. Have you sent a > letter to your favorite browser manufacturer requesting this > functionality? It isn't a browser issue, it's a basic flaw in the frameset idea--it breaks the World Wide Web concept of unique addressable URLs. Once you have entered a frameset and followed a trail of links, you are still in the same frameset, but its intitial URL is no longer useful as a bookmark. It's a giant step backward, to the days of gopher, when you had to say, "gopher to gopher.site.org, then choose: departments, then choose, my department, then choose, etc. etc." [Of course, gopher links are not that bad, they can possess URLs, and be bookmarked; but before URLs were widely used, one had to give such circuitous directions. For frames, one still must!] Warren Steel %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% BAD (broken as designed) %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% about Unix: "If it stopped you from doing stupid things, it would stop me from doing smart things." %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Font size 3 is defined to be the default. Smaller sizes are, by definition, "small print" - for purposes such as legalese, or "last updated" messages. An author using them for general purpose text is simply displaying his/her ignorance. Nick Kew %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% The whole design aim of HTML was that it would NOT be rendered identically for all readers. Alan J. Flavell %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% "HTML is not an answer waiting for a question; it's a tool for certain purposes. Where clarity, portability, and efficiency are high priority, HTML is often suitable. Where appearance and layout are of paramount importance, HTML is unlikely to do the job well." Warren Steel %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% http://www.cast.org/bobby/ CAST: Bobby [information on accessible HTML] http://style.webreview.com/ Web Review Style Sheets Reference Guide http://webreview.com/universal/resources/CSS.htm Web Page Design for Designers -- Links http://www.tstimpreso.com/hotsheet/ HOT SHEET web quick reference http://www.synet.net/hwg/ The HTML Writers Guild Website http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tilt/cgh/ Composing Good HTML http://home.netscape.com/comprod/products/navigator/version_2.0/frames/ Frames http://www.sandia.gov/sci_compute/html_ref.html HTML Reference Manual http://www.webtechs.com/html-val-svc/ HTML Validation Service http://ugweb.cs.ualberta.ca/~gerald/validate/ A Kinder, Gentler HTML Validator http://www.dsiegel.com/tips/ Net Tips for Writers and Designers by an author not well regarded by some persons on this newsgroup http://www.useit.com Tips from Jakob Nielsen on page design and navigation, an author who is well regarded by some on this newsgroup http://www.phoenix.net/~jacobson/rgb.html RGB Hex Triplet Color Chart http://www.stars.com/ The Web Developer's Virtual Library http://www.blooberry.com/ A comprehensive list of HTML elements http://werbach.com/barebones/ A downloadable quick reference guide to HTML elements %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Not really. The real problem is that a thread evolved into a discussion that was actually about authoring HTML (empty BODY elements contra optional tags). Note that this topic is hardly of no practical import; because it does serve to differentiate between tags () marking up an element and that element itself (the BODY). This is a very handy example to keep in mind when confused about these concepts. (E.g., When can I omit tags; Why can I omit tags) Timothy R Prodin %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% See the thread "Tags misbehaving" from Aug-Sep 96, where Bill's inability to grasp this particular distinction was demonstrated. He's done nothing but caterwaul ever since. :ar %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% You might like to ask these people which font their radio adverts are displayed in. You really have to get across the fact that the Web is a new medium. If you don't do this, you have failed to *inform*, which we both agree is what a professional Web developer must do. Tom Hukins %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Once again we come back to Jakob Nielsen's principle, that the most effective user interface is normally the one with which the reader is already familiar, rather than something new dreamt up by each page author. Alan J. Flavell %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% I just went to a site about ticks, my dog had one, and tried to print the information on my laser printer. The site used text="#FFFFFF" which is pure white on a black page. The problem is that laser printers have a problem printing white text. It's like looking for a white rabbit in a snow storm. If you use white text, change it from #FFFFFF to #FFFFFE. There is no obvious difference in the color and the page can now be printed on a laser printer. -- Bob %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% In <34B55CD2.3F54BC7E@on.spammer>, Veronica Karlsson wrote: >William G. Schlake wrote: >> Cite a reference to support your 45% figure. > [matlab source snipped] Independent confirmation: $ echo ".90*.50" | bc .45 David Henderson %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% (as I understand it) A tag is all the information between a < character and a > character. An element is all information between a tag and a tag (express or implied), including the tags themselves. An element can also be just a single tag when it's an empty element. (like IMG) A statement "most browsers will ignore tags it does not recognise" can mean something different (and wrong) if the word "tags" is replaced for "elements" Eg. blah blah blah Most browsers would see the tag and interpret it as a text level element which has no effect. The "blah blah blah" content would be rendered as if the two opening and closing tags were not stated. Saying that "browsers will ignore elements it does not recognise" suggests that browers will ignore the "blah blah blah" content as well. C.H.E.B. (I am really Bill Godfrey, but I have no email address at the moment. Sorry.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think you're confused. In terms of HTML, an element is the basic part of a tag, while an attribute is a modifier that affects the element. Example: " is a tag that contains the "P" element. Dave Williams ------------------------------------------------------------------------- He's not the only one that's confused, it seems. It's the other way around: the tag is a part of the element. | while the HREF is an attribute that tells the browser what to do | with the anchor (in this case, link to the "blah.html" file). The | closing tag has only the "A" element, preceded by a slash to | indicate that it's a closing tag. This is the story: is the start tag, Blah is the element content and is the end tag. The whole shebang is an element instance, usually just called an element. Lars Marius Garshol ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The closing tag has only the "A" element, preceded by a slash > to indicate that it's a closing tag. A bit of nit picking. Formally speaking the 'A' in the closing tag is not really "preceded" by the slash. I have another idea. The 'A' in the closing tag is not even required. Formally speaking, writing this would do just fine. It may be practical though to indicate in the closing tag, in the same way as in the opening tag, that the two sort of belongs together as a pair that marks up the element "Blah". Jan Roland Eriksson %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% "People who think they know everything, are very annoying to those of us who actually do" unknown %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Dave Williams wrote: > Knowing browser-usage statistics is interesting, but it shouldn't > be a basis for WWW authoring decisons. I use browser stastics for my web page. Logic: My stats say people use god-knows how many browsers on more operating systems then you've ever heard of, so design it for all of them! Randy Gardner %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Hehehe... hey us programmers *do* program html too. Kit Smith ----------- We programmers know that HTML markup isn't programming. (My official job title is "physicist programmer", if you want to know). Alan J. Flavell ----------- How does one program physicists? I'm a perl programmer, myself. :-) David Henderson ----------- About the same way that one herds cats, I'd say ;-) Alan J. Flavell %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% In article , Lars Eighner wrote: >In our last episode <6990gk$3b8$2@client3.news.psi.net>, >the lovely and talented abigail@fnx.com (Abigail) >broadcast on comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html: >|A white line. Leading indents. A pause. The proper way can >|only be determined by the reader. > >Wrong. The author determines the structure of the text. >The reader can sort the lines if he or she wishes, but then >it is not the work of literature that the author created. There is *no* standard presentation of paragraphs in "literary" texts. Why do you believe otherwise? If you sell a story to a magazine, do you tell them how to indent the paragraphs for your story? Would you tell a publisher what word spacing to use when they print your novel? Of course you wouldn't do anything so silly, so why do you think you should have such absurd control over the presentation of text with HTML? The presentation of any text is controlled by the person publishing that txt, whether it's a paperback novel or an HTML story. But with HTML it's the user who downloads the story that gets to be the publisher. Now get your head out of the sand and quit trying to ignore the reality of HTML, where everyone can to control the presentation of text, whether it's "literary" or just technical manuals. The author of any text may control the structure. but they've never had much control over its presentation in HTML or on paper. I know that in the things I've had published, it's always been the people doing getting my text who decide on it's appearance. -- Bill Bereza %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% [ 8< ] >> That has to be a bug in your browser. Get a better one. > >Is that MS Explorer 4, by chance? That could be a new feature. With six legs. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% In principle, the difference is that a TH element indicates a table heading whereas TD indicates table data, i.e. a data cell in a table. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% BS's remark reminded me of the laboratory rat in the old joke: Boy have I got this psychologist trained. Every time I run around this maze and push this button he gives me a treat. :) %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% * kparker@*removethisphrase*.post.kosone.com | | Here is a simple question for an HTML guru! No, but people who know CSS find it quite simple. :) | What tag can I put in HTML to double-line space text? There isn't any. | It is help people with sight/perception difficulties who find words | easier to read when more spaced out. Try this in a CSS style sheet: P { line-height: 200% } See for directions on how to combine CSS with HTML. Lars Marius Garshol %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% I've always had an idea for a short story presented in the form of Usenet posts. Not just a section computerish-looking messages to add to a story, but to have the entire story presented only through a series of posts by the characters in said story. I think _Crime and Punishment_ would've made a good Usenet thread. -- Bill Bereza %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% The prose paragraph and its verse counterpart, the stanza, are basic units of linguistic thought and literary style. The typographer must articulate them enough to make them clear, yet not so strongly that the form instead of the content steals the show. If the units of thought, or the boundaries between thoughts, look more important than the thoughts themselves, the typographer has failed. --Robert Bringhurst, _The Elements of Typographic Style_ %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% John Nagle wrote: > > Netscape Navigator sure doesn't. I'd like to buy an editor > that generates strict HTML 3.2. that will pass validation. > Any suggestions? > > John Nagle I've found notepad works really well...... :-) Kinda scarry, that so many products can't even pass Weblint checks in ultra-easy mode..... (If you check my site, it will pass weblint in pedantic mode, and pass AKGHV.....) But from my expierences, nothing I tried would pass weblint in pedantic mode. (Netscape, HotDog, and one I don't remember.) Of course, those are only a tiny fraction of what's out there! Randy Gardner %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Re: Portfolios What do Employers Want? Another suggestion for *really* huge sites you want to use in a portfolio - a writeable CD drive. Having just left my last job for a new one, I took advantage of my last company's CD writer and copied the whole site (well, all the parts I was responsible for) to a CD. There was no way it'd fit on a floppy (it was over 35 MB). I'll never be able to change it, but it's effectively an archive so I wasn't going to anyhow. I'm not sure how much CD writers run these days, but for archive-type portfolio stuff, I consider them more useful than Zip drives (since more people have CD-ROM drives than Zips), and more reliable than direct intenet connection. Few things are more embarassing than having to say "this is where the page would be, if the server weren't down...." Besides, if you leave a job, who's to say your replacement won't substantially change all your hard work :-) ? -Alison Furlong alison@logex.com %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Actually it's laughably easy to take a look at the emerging standards and to develop a reasonably clear picture of what technologies will become important and useful in the next 6-8 months or so. The Web itself changes at a perfectly bearable rate vis-a-vis the demands of creating material for it. The difficulty arises when certain companies who develop products for the Web decide arbitrarily to flout the hard work that others might have spent long months refining, on the assumption that adhering to objective standards will result in the death of their product. My experience has been that more appropriate methods can be found to produce Web content than the "big Two" would have you believe. A little willingness to look beyond the rim of the box is all that's required. And now, if you'll forgive a mixed metaphor, it's time you quit flogging that cart for not adequately pulling your horse. Dan McGarry %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% "every decoding is another encoding" %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% HTML = MARKUP When you are preparing some text with a desktop publishing program like MS-Word, then you can trim the layout to fit exactly to the size of your paper sheets and to the fonts available on your local printer. However, when you publish some text in the World-Wide Web, you cannot know in advance what sort of client software and computer screens and window sizes and fonts the readers all over the world will be using to access your information. Therefore, you have to specify the contents of your information in their logical structure, not just in their physical appearance. If your web page looks good on your onw computer screen with your own browser software and personal options settings, this does not necessarily mean that it will look the same on other people's screens with their software and personal settings: What you see is what YOU get, but not what everyone else gets. Everybody's client software uses the markup to present the information contained in your web page such that it will look best on that reader's screen. In some cases, this might even involve speach syntheziers. Also, search engines use the markup to select the keywords to be searched. It is never a good idea to mis-use the HTML markups for anything other than their logical meaning. For example, if you enter I wanna hold your hand then this may be rendered like "I wanna hold your hand" on your screen, but search engines will probably find completely different keyword like "Our old Anna and I" ! If you really want to achieve boldface initials, then you better choose an appropriate font on the client, which would be quite easy with the help of "style sheets" once they will be implemented by all major browsers. See http://www.w3.org/ for more details... For the same reason, the

and

tags are much better suited for centering than
, since paragraph breaks can get lost with the latter. Consider this helpful example: The HTML text Help is

now

here! might be rendered (logically still correctly) as Help is now here! but Help is

now
here! might be rendered (incorrectly) as Help is nowhere! by a browser that does not support centering. -- Hubert Partl partl@mail.boku.ac.at ZID BOKU Wien http://www.boku.ac.at/ %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% WWW = WORLD-WIDE The WWW is based on world-wide information access: All users of all web browsers shall be able to access all information stored on all web servers all over the world. This can only work if everybody adheres to the standards: TCP/IP, HTTP, HTML. Most web browsers tolerate various deviations from the HTML standards. If your HTML file is understood by your own browser, this does not necessarily mean that it contains valid HTML and that it can be read by other people using other browsers. Therefore it is recommended to obey the "de-facto standard" of HTML, i.e. to use only those HTML elements that are rendered readably by all major browsers. Some good sources for determining this recommended set of HTML elements are the specifications collected by the W3 consortium at http://www.w3.org/ and the warning messages produced by HTML validators like http://www.webtechs.com/html-val-svc/ http://ugweb.cs.ualberta.ca/~gerald/validate/ http://www.khoral.com/staff/neilb/weblint/lintform.html http://www.khoral.com/staff/neilb/weblint/validation.html Some software companies try hard to sell web browsers that support several non-standard additional features. Thus, users who want to use these extra features shall be forced to buy that company's software. It is not advisable to depend on one software company, as you can learn from the recent history: . In 1993, everyone used Gopher. . In 1994, Gopher was surpassed by Mosaic. . In 1995, Mosaic was surpassed by Netscape, but a few millions of persons still used other browsers like those integrated into AOL, Prodigy, OS/2, or Windows-95. . In 1996, Netscape and Microsoft created new browser versions with fancy layout features aimed at high-resolution PC screens, whereas WebTV created a way for simple Web pages to be viewed on low-resolution TV screens. If you do not want to exclude a large part of your audience, you should be very careful with tags that are not (or not yet) supported by all major browsers, like for instance , , ,
, , , , ,