Kevin Lyda wrote: > you are blaming netscape for things that are caused by bad website design. Netscape have been _encouraging_ this kind of bad design, and this is where I put the blame. NOFRAMES just looks like "insert Netscape ad here". Have you ever read the insolences some people put there? "Go away and don't come back until you have transformed into Netscape Navigator 3.0, or turn your JavaScript on, idiot". This is an actual example (well, translated, the original was in German). Olaf Titz %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% The X11 version of Netscape (the one which is likely to choose a 5x5x5 or worse palette on 256-colour systems) can be run with the -install option, which causes it to switch the monitor to its own (6x6x6) palette whenever a Netscape window has the "focus". This can be alarming: one moment I have a pleasant sea-green background with fish swimming in it, the next I have psychedelic fish swimming in blood. 8-0 -- Chris Gray %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Jay and/or Blaise writes: > > What is a "lint"?, just out of curiousity. In the Real World (tm), "lint" is the name given to loose fibres which are not properly incorporated into a textile, and which come loose in the washing machine. Serious tea towels are lint-free. In the world of computer geekery, "lint" refers to something which is not a syntax error, but is poor style or somehow suspicious. Why did you declare a variable and then never use it? In that if - then - else sequence, are you aware that the "then" part can never be executed? This function should return a value, but contains no "return" statement? The C development tools which come with every version of Un*x include a utility called "lint" which checks programs for this kind of stuff. By analogy, a program which checks HTML for things which are not syntax errors (i.e. not contrary to the DTD), but are undesirable for some other reason, could be called a "linter" (or better still, "de-linter"). "Real World" is a trademark of William G. Schlake Esq. Chris Gray ---------------------------------------------- Chris Gray wrote: > > In the Real World (tm), "lint" is the name given to loose fibres which > are not properly incorporated into a textile, and which come loose in > the washing machine. Serious tea towels are lint-free. or perhaps the fluff that the male gender seem to constantly find in their naval, he says furiously checking for evidence in an off topic manner :) Jay ---------------------------------------------- > or perhaps the fluff that the male gender seem to constantly find in > their naval, he says furiously checking for evidence in an off topic > manner :) You psychic? I came --> <-- *that* close to mentioning navel fluff. :) Chris Gray %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% I thought I'd share with you a use I found for the tag:

Schroedinger's cat is not alive.

Kirrily "Skud" Robert %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% (If this turns into a pie fight between Abigail and Diane, I'll watch from under the table :>). Chris Gray %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% On Fri, 17 Apr 1998, Jacqui Caren wrote: > is application/msword registered? Why ask usenet? Look here instead: ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/iana/assignments/media-types/application/ and the answer there is in the affirmative. Note however that this is not true for other MS products, such as msexcel etc., which are registered as application/vnd.ms-excel etc. ttfn Alan J. Flavell %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% AG wrote: > > definitive answers, I'm aware I won't get them I wanted a rule of thumb > so I could justify not working in 640x480 anymore. > Brace yourself. Many people here are going to tell you that you should not be "working in" anything. They are going to say your site needs to run across the widest possible range of operating systems, browsers and settings. They will remind you that HTML is a markup language not a layout control system. They may say that if you deviate you are going to run into a whole host of problems. They will add that you should stick to the spec and let the monitor and browser run after itself. And many of those people are going to be right. Simon ------------------------------------- AG writes: > I was hoping to find out generally x percentage of people using the > internet view it at 640x480, x percentage at 800x600 etc. I don't want > definitive answers, I'm aware I won't get them I wanted a rule of thumb > so I could justify not working in 640x480 anymore. Well I for one hope you don't get what you're looking for. -- Chris "anything from 320x200 to 1280x1024" Gray %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% You need a tool which implements a mind-reading function. :-) Jukka Korpela %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Alan J. Flavell wrote: > Bernie Reger wrote: > > > > Hey there! I need a little help and this is the best place to find it. > > > You may not like some of the answers you get. > Alan An excellent product which shall presently remain unamed is in the beta stage now and should be out in the 3rd quarter 2005. It will have complete WYSIWYG and full ie8.5 and nc14.2a compatibility. That is if the standards of HTML6.2 are finally agreed upon by the "MSWorld Court". It will be distributed at no cost via digital "ether" at 100gb/nanosec. on the new "Goreware" network. The only cost will be the $50/minute connection fee if you go past the "unlimited access" of 5 minutes on the ("Praise The Lord One and Only Microsoft) PTLOOM network. OOPS, I just let out some secret military secrets........ HMW %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Whoever Oyster Systems are, they should be shot. Stephen Richard Pugh ------------------------------------- > Whoever Oyster Systems are, they should be shot. I thought that had been abolished? Perhaps we could set the Minister's guide dog on them. Alan J. Flavell ------------------------------------- > I thought that had been abolished? Perhaps we could set the Minister's > guide dog on them. Does the diminishing of No.10s reputation count as (high) treason? In which case the death penalty still applies, or it it merely a treasonable felony? Derek Moody %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Lynx 2.6 looks like some sort of Notepad or SimpleText with a NetSurfer's license. miK %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ALT text replaces an image. Effective ALT text does this seamlessly so that the blind user thinks that the Web page was designed specifically for his or her browsing environment. -- Liam Quinn %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Iain Wilkie Logan wrote: > > ******************* > As many UK subscribers to CIWAH may be aware, there's a big splurge due at > the Number 10 Downing Street website on the > 29th of April, to be conducted by Sir David Frost no less. Tony Blair will > be giving Europe's first live internet interview with a government leader. > [snip the HTML is hopeless] > > I'm sure Tony Blair would be totally astonished if he were to be made aware > of this situation. This almost *has* to be a deliberate joke. The total content of the home page in text is; [Image] Which is one of the funniest bits of political satire on New Labour I've seen in months. -- Nic Hughes %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Did you know that your Browser is buggy: it can't parse comments correctly. --> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% It's hard to keep up these (and other) days. "When I was your age, we were happy to have punctuation marks!" Michael Slone %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% If you're trying to sell something, you'll have better luck with a fast, easy-to-navigate site that gives people the info they're looking for. CNET recently had a story about how they tested some sites with a group of users, and the top-rated site had cost about $10,000 while the lowest-rated site cost $3 million. Just goes to show that bells and whistles aren't always the best way. Dave Williams %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% I find it far more impressive when I find a site with kickass visuals and creative interactivity that's usable in every browser I could use than a site with just kickass visuals and creative interactivity. James T. Hsiao %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Alan J. Flavell wrote: >Nice idea. When are those bloatpage authors going to send me the >upgrade for my workstation, and, more importantly, upgrade the >transatlantic wet string? Question: What the heck is the transatlantic wet string and is it a carnivore? catnip -------------------------------- (catnip) wrote: >Question: What the heck is the transatlantic wet string and is it a >carnivore? I believe catnip that this technology is based on an invention developed in the Australian colonies. Australia is a big place and communications for the early colonials posed major difficulties. This was not a problem for the aboriginals but that is story for another day. Following the introduction of tinned bully beef there were a lot of empty tin cans available and some enterprising telecommunications pioneers developed a technique to use these cans to good effect. By piercing a hole in the bottom of an empty can and threading a piece of string through the hole and then knotting the end of the string and repeating this at the other end of the string two cans are connected. When the cans are separated so that the string is taut it was found that a person speaking into one can could be heard clearly at the other can. News of this development spread widely and soon the country was crisscrossed by a sophisticated communications network. Due to the vast distances involved and unpredictable nature of the tin can at the other end of the line a special vocabulary was developed so that messages could be received irrespective of the equipment in use. This became a formal structured marking language and was a precursor to the later development of hyper text markup language. When news of this antipodean development reached England the aristocracy were shocked. 'How dare these sons of convicts upstage us' was more than whispered in the corridors of power and soon a scheme was planned to upstage any mere colonial development with the grandest scheme of all. A link to be between England and their now reconciled American cousins was announced. After some years of refinement to deal with difficulties in communicating over water, a problem not encountered in Australia as there was no link between the mainland and Tasmania, and following successful trials over the English channel the great "transatlantic wet string" was established. The official opening was a great occasion with simultaneous cutting of ceremonial ribbons by the King and President in their respective countries. Whether or not it is a "carnivore" is not disclosed in the official records but as an Australian I can assure you that folklore for the Australian version, albeit a 'dry' string, most positively indicates that it is. I think the original content of many of the tin cans may have something to do with this. -- Robert G. Eldridge Cardiff NSW Australia -------------------------------- Robert G. Eldridge wrote: > >After some years of refinement to deal with difficulties in >communicating over water, a problem not encountered in Australia as >there was no link between the mainland and Tasmania, and following >successful trials over the English channel the great "transatlantic >wet string" was established. The official opening was a great occasion >with simultaneous cutting of ceremonial ribbons by the King and >President in their respective countries. You forgot the amusing incident of the ribbon cutting ceremony where one of the officials accidently cut the transatlantic wet string instead of the ribbon. A makeshift square knot was tied to mend the error for the ceremony. -- Russell O'Connor -------------------------------- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Chris Gray wrote: > >Next week: how to stop a link from being followed when the user clicks on it. oh that's easy, but how do you stop users from clicking in the first place ? In fact stopping users visiting the page altogether sounds like a good idea, they just get in the way. Boyd Pearson -------------------------------- Chris Gray wrote: > catnip wrote: > > Chris Gray wrote: > > > Komal Bobal writes: > > > > > > > > Currently, my form needs the scroll bars because its a big form, so the user > > > > should be able to scroll down to a pt. and then scroll no further, thereby not > > > > seeing the other form on the page. > > > > > >Now it's my turn to risk sounding dumb: if the user shouldn't be able to see > > >the "other" form, why is it on the page at all? > > > > This technique is widely used for people who have cats. The other form > > is hidden, but any nearby cat will pick up the cue, quickly distract > > the human away from the computer, and sneakily fill out the other form > > before the human comes back. > > So that's why I get email from people in Texas offering me jobs involving > software I've never even heard of. Remind me to kick that fat furry > deviant when I get home. > I'm e-mailing him to warn him to be prepared. :-P catnip Hi Chris!! %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% http://webcrawler.com/cgi-bin/SearchTicker %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% >>you can sneak a peek at what people actully use at: >> >>http://webcrawler.com/Games/SearchTicker.html > >The second one is more dynamic and you quickly learn that placing >some misspelt (misspelled to USAns) words in your keyword list is >very important unless your clients have to be perfect spellers. Rather than looking at webcrawler's stupid searchticker, I spent 5 seconds and looked at their HTML for their ticker. From this I figured out that their little java app is getting it's data from a simple text file... http://webcrawler.com/cgi-bin/SearchTicker ...this is much simpler to look at then to try and read queries running by on a ticker. Then from the command I ran this command: repeat 100 lynx -dump http://webcrawler.com/cgi-bin/SearchTicker >> query.txt I then typed "sort query.txt|uniq -c|sort > query2.txt" FINALLY, WE CAN TALK INTELLIGENTLY ABOUT HOW PEOPLE ARE USING QUERIES! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 9.4% of the queries used "quotes around phrases" 3.2% of the queries used "+" 20.0% of the queries used " and " or " AND " 0.4% of the queries used " or " or " OR " 0.1% of the queries used " not " or " NOT " 0.0% of the queries used " near " or " NEAR " 0.1% of the queries used " -" or " -" In short, based on webcrawler queries... THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE (ALMOST 70%) JUST TYPE IN KEYWORDS. Other than the some who use "AND" and "quotes", NO ONE USES "+", "-", "NEAR", "NOT", "OR". Note that webcrawler understands all those commands (except "NEAR", which no one tried), so I think this is probably a fair test and representative of queries to other search engines. This should help you design your web site and I hope it help. Finally, you could modify my little commandline so that only stores results that have "invest" in them. Then you can see all the queries that people are making that contain "invest". Then you can design your page to contain those other terms and not just "invest". carasso -------------------------------- lynx -dump http://webcrawler.com/cgi-bin/SearchTicker >> query.txt ; more dum >> query.txt ; dum.cgi -------------------------------- man sleep is your friend. -------------------------------- repeat 300 `lynx -dump http://webcrawler.com/cgi-bin/SearchTicker >> query.txt ; more dum >> query.txt ; dum.cgi ; sleep 10` %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Subject: Re: Is there a free/cheap HTML parser? Russ Heithoff writes: > Is there any public HTML parsers? You could use Perl with suitable libraries. For instance, a Perl script (or program, as you like) which parses an HTML file and prints it as plain text using certain default formatting can be written in a few lines as follows: use HTML::Parse; require HTML::FormatText; $html = parse_htmlfile("test.html"); $formatter = new HTML::FormatText; print $formatter->format($html); The parse_htmlfile constructs a data structure (tree) which contains the data in parsed form, so you can easily perform various transformations. The tricky part of course is to learn to use Perl and the libraries. For a general introduction to Perl, see http://www.hut.fi/u/jkorpela/perl/intro.html Installing Perl might be non-trivial, too. However, installing it on Win 95 was a piece of cake. (On Unix, it's trickier.) -- Yucca, http://www.hut.fi/u/jkorpela/ %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% On 19 Apr 98 11:18:46 GMT, "Will" wrote: > > >> >It measures only 2inches by 9mm!, yet it can send a brilliant red dot up >to 1200 feet, even >> >in the brightest of rooms! >> >> There must be something fun I can think of to do with that thing! >> >> catnip >> (And why is it measured in inches and mm's? *twirls blonde hair*) >> >Yes I am sure there is but please post your reply to the proper >Newsgroup......alt.sex.fetishs...... It's "fetishes". :-P >BTW....I measure mine in mm's It's only 9mm's?? hehehehe...*gotcha back* catnip [e-mailed, posted, and pointed out with the new funky laser pointer] %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% On Wed, 22 Apr 1998, Veronica Karlsson wrote: > I just _had_to_: > > http://www.ludd.luth.se/~vk/pics/rubbish/frameexample/ ;-) Here's one I made earlier: http://ppewww.ph.gla.ac.uk/~flavell/noframes.html Alan J. Flavell %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% (Bernie Reger) wrote: > Please, only vote if you have a favorite WYSIWYG editor. The "Other" > vote shouldn't be used to show your disdain of WYSIWYG editors. Those are only wysiwYg editors. True WYSIWYG editors are those that allow you edit and have full control over the source. Greg Berigan %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Thanks to whoever pointed out that 3 years is a long time in this business. Who's familiar with the saying that there are 9 internet years for every normal year? Kirrily "Skud" Robert %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

This browser handles comments incorrectly.

The bad guys will display this text %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Phil> Phil Stripling => In , Phil wrote: Phil> Comments seem to be thoroughly confusing to a lot of people. The Phil> actual delimiters of a comment are the double dashes -- this is Phil> the comment -- and not the pair. Phil> Phil> A comment is a SGML declaration, and SGML delcarations are Phil> started by , so the comment must be within Phil> the declaration delimiters. So a comment would be included as Phil> and it is able to be on different lines for convenience . Phil> Or whatever. Phil> --> Phil> Another issue I'm not sure about. I believe you need a space Phil> before the second -- pair but not after the first -- pair? Phil> Someone will correct or confirm that. You aren't allowed any space between "" where {comment followed by optional space} consists of + Comment toggle (COM) "--" + any text EXCEPT "--" + Comment toggle (COM) "--" + any amount of space So the following are all valid comment declarations: (the empty comment declaration) (1 (empty) comment) (2 comments) (each comment contains "- ") 2 (2 comments - "1" and ">2 (no comment end) (third comment not ended) (ditto) (stray "-" after end of comment) (ditto) (ditto) (space between MDO and COM) foo --> (stray data "bar") The last case is what happens if you inadvertently attempt to "comment out" markup that contains comments (or simply "--" as in the penultimate case). Toby Speight %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% REBUS wrote: > > Ah, here's the problem: with Very Few Exceptions, you can not define an > audience based on Browser/computer/personal-choice capabilities. Period. > End of Story. Fini. Movie Over. Ahh, good point. I have a portion of my site that provides information concerning nothing but Windows and IE, so by some logic I should be able to *optimize* the pages to IE4 on a windows platform, assuming that is my target audience. In reality the reverse is true. A large portion of my visitors are using older browsers and non-wintel platforms, trying to find information about Win9.x and/or IE to see if they want to bother with them or not. Many have emailed thanking me for making the site easy on them, since they had a hard time with some of the more popular *kewl* IE4 enhanced sites. You are exactly right that one cannot accurately assume what their core audience will be. Chip Ciammaichella %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Why frames are bad: http://www.useit.com/alertbox/9612.html http://www.internetworld.com/print/1996/06/03/news/frame.html http://web.mit.edu/cwis/frames/ http://www.tcm.hut.fi/~karri/noframes.html http://www.sun.com/960416/columns/alertbox/index.html %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Boris Ammerlaan wrote: > jason olmsted wrote: > > Boris Ammerlaan wrote: > > > > > > [frames...] > > > The problem is not direct frame addressing, which can be done by using > > > some browser-specific scripting tool, but URL addressibility. > > > > If one needed to, the information of the frameset could be embedded > > into the each content page, which could do a check of position and > > rebuild the frameset accordingly. I believe that would provide complete > > URL addressibility. > >Then give me an example of what such a URL would look like. I was going to do it the first time, but the post was growing lengthy: http://somehost.somedomain.com/somepath/somedocument.html in somedocument.html: Obviously not exactly what one would use, and there are varioations to be used per one's exact behavior needs, but this little script would cause an individually bookmarked page to reconstiture its frameset. (This scheme looks for an exact variable instance, which requires the frameset document to contain complementary script. Another technique would be to just check for the existence of a frameset) jason olmsted %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% >82@82.com wrote in article <6h2ubg$opi$313@pumba.class.udg.mx>... >> Hi! >> >> My name is Elena. I'm 19. >> >> I want to make cybersex. >> >> Please visit my homepage: >> http://www.fortunecity.com/village/weaver/94/index.html >> >> >> Bye >> >> Elena Unfortunately, only works in Netscape 3.0 +. You can get the equivalent effect with Active-Sex on IE, but that will appear as a "Broken Tool" on Netscape. Adobe and Macromedia are apparently working on JavaBased C-Sex authoring environments but the beta testers reports are frankly, unintelligable, as they appear to have been typed using only half of the keyboard. ++++ edelhart@teleport.com "Building Utopia, One Intern at a time" ------------------------------------------ Dave wrote: > > >82@82.com wrote in article <6h2ubg$opi$313@pumba.class.udg.mx>... > >> Hi! > >> > >> My name is Elena. I'm 19. > >> > >> I want to make cybersex. > > Unfortunately, only works in Netscape 3.0 +. You can get > the equivalent effect with Active-Sex on IE, but that will appear as a > Additionally the lovely Elena appears to have had her page translated from the Russian by Alta Vista! Simon ------------------------------------------ >Additionally the lovely Elena appears to have had her page >translated from the Russian by Alta Vista! > >Simon And it looks like they've now just chucked her off the server Emile Axelrad ------------------------------------------ >Additionally the lovely Elena appears to have had her page >translated from the Russian by Alta Vista! Was there text on that site? I must have missed it. :-P catnip %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Indeed, it is really amazing how many authors work at their hardest to make their pages accessible to the least possible number of readers. But meanwhile I suspect an additional phenomenon: people are also determined to damage their pages for *expected* display situations. At home I exclusively use Lynx. At university I'm also playing around with Netscape Navigator (various versions, 4.0x lately). I've found that pages that look great with Lynx also look great when viewed with Netscape. In fact, they usually look even better there, due to the proportional font etc. I have also found that pages that look abysmal with Lynx tend to be equally bad *or worse* with Netscape even when they are supposedly "optimized" for that browser, the right release, and the same canvas size. People don't set things like dark purple text on a black background by accident. Currently, when I use Netscape, I disable everything. No Java, no Javascript (that also kills stylesheets), no auto-loading of images, my font only, my colors only (Netscape doesn't really stick to this). Now I'm looking for ill-documented X resources to disable further misfeatures. It's the only way to get a readable document display. -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% As a practical matter, enough browsers parse comments incorrectly that it is safer to follow the following rule of thumb (which produces valid comments that still work on common browsers): A comment begins with "", and doesn't contain any occurances of "--" or ">". -- Darin McGrew %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Gary writes: > Shelf life of a TV is about 5 years, shelf life of a PC is currently running at less than > a year. The PC on the shelf is not the PC that is being used. When the PC is taken down from the shelf, then and only then will somebody start using it. The question is not how long did it remain on the shelf, but how long will it remain in use after being taken down. -- Chris Gray %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Gary wrote: > Veronica Karlsson wrote: > > I don't see this connection. I think a lot of people regard their > > computers in the same way as any other electronic piece of equipment. I > > mean, you don't buy a new TV, stereo, refrigerator, etc every second > > year, so why should you buy a new computer every second year? > > Shelf life of a TV is about 5 years, shelf life of a PC is currently > running at less than a year. That doesn't contradict Veronica's point. Just because the computer stores haven't stocked 486DX2/66 PCs with 3x CD-ROM drives for a few years doesn't mean my wife and I are rushing out to replace our four-year-old PC. Shelf life doesn't correlate with useful working life. The shelf life of a new automobile model is about a year (sometimes less if the manufacturer comes out with a mid-year model update). I know no one who buys a new car every year. Darin McGrew --------------- But they (cars) all use the same gas and oil that has been around for years and they all primarily work just the same as they did 50 years ago. Computers are different story. Computers from 20 years ago did their job well, but can they do what needs to be done today? Sure, they still work, but can they do much of what computers do today? Your 486, although still very useful, will be in the same place that computers of 20 years ago are today, only a whole lot sooner than 20 years. It is silly to upgrade to a faster PC just because it is there when your old PC does the job just fine. But what about 5 years from now, 10 years from now, even 20 years from now. Are you still going to be using a 20 year old computer???? Egro --------------- Egro wrote: > Are you still going to be using a 20 year old computer???? The answer to this might just suprise a few people. I have had e-mail conversations with people who proudly inform me that they are using an Amiga. At computer shows it is not uncommon to see tables offering parts and software for the Commodore. I recently did maintenance on someone's 386, which they wanted to get working because they wanted to try connecting to the internet using Windows. Not everyone feels that they are a power user, and not all feel the need to move to a biger, better, faster PC. Some (gasp) actually do not have the financial means to stay current, either. As far as screen resolution goes, does anyone know what the screen resolution is in a Toshiba Libretto? How about a palmtop? Most of the smaller notebooks I have seen don't do anything above 640X480. I am not certain that the screen resolution issue is dead at all. Manufacturers seem to still be making low resolution screens, and it seems that the move to smaller personal machines might even be encouraging the use of lower resolutions. This is just the way it seems to me, based upon my personal experience. Pai Yili --------------- Pai Yili wrote: >conversations with people who proudly inform me that they are using an >Amiga. At computer shows it is not uncommon to see tables offering >parts and software for the Commodore. I recently did maintenance >wanted to try connecting to the internet using Windows. Not everyone >feels that they are a power user, and not all feel the need to move to Well, I must say that I resnt the notion that the Amiga is not a power computer. I have two computers. An Amiga A1200 with a Blizzard 1230 and a 486 DX4 PC running windows 95. Guess which one's the faster? Bill, president of the "It's not the PC" society. --------------- Gary wrote: > Shelf life of a TV is about 5 years, shelf life of a PC is currently > running at less than a year. I suppose it is if you are buying the cheapest one you can find and even then I doubt what you say here. I have been in electronics for over 30 years and any television I have seen should last you at least 10 years and will probably go on for closer to 15 years or longer. Hell, I still have an old 13" color from 1976 that still works like a champ. NO! It hasn't been repaired yet. Just keeps on ticking. If you are buying electronics that are only lasting you about 5 years, then you should definitely try to get better electronics. Either that, or you just don't know how to take care of them properly. Spirit Explorer --------------- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Derek S. Moore wrote: > >Well I would say I'm a Webmaster, but I am not a programmer. >Unfortunately there is no standard for "Webmaster" or "Webmistess". "Web Goddess" is defined. (see below) "catnip" %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Disappearing Hard Drive Space is part and parcel of being attached to the 'net and requires very careful management. Every client (browser newsreader, e mail) is going to be storing a whole load of stuff somewhere and not necessarily in the obvious place. Pre Caching and other wonders of modern science can make you feel like you are running a proxy for the whole of the West Coast. This is off topic but in brief for every application you have, read the notes carefully, find out what is being stored where; and keep a very close eye on the defaults. Then get out your phase array radar and zap all the old rubbish. Needless to say MicroSoft are the worst offenders. By a mile. HTH Simon %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% If you add do-dads, pictures, and sound, _know_what_each_item_adds_ to what you need to say, to your meaning, to your content. Do not add crap to your page just to have magic buttons. On the other hand, it _is_ your page -- add all the crap you want. :-> -- Phil Stripling %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Russell Steven Shawn O'Connor wrote: >Veronica Karlsson wrote: >>Russell Steven Shawn O'Connor wrote: >>[ 8< ] >>> (That's comments today, I was wrong about trailing slashes in URL the >>> other day. Who says purr-ists never admit they are sometimes wrong? :-) >> >>Who says you're a purr-ist? > >I only assumed I was. > > |\__/,| (`\ > |_ _ |.--.) ) > ( T ) / > (((^_(((/(((_> Maybe I should take on labeling people as purr-ists ie. those who are purr-fect ;-) 1. Chris Gray 2. Liam Quinn 3. Jude Crouch (where *is* Jude??) catnip Hi Chris!! --------------------- > 1. Chris Gray > 2. Liam Quinn > 3. Jude Crouch (where *is* Jude??) Um, flattery will get you everywhere, but: nobody's perfect, not even me. Just ask my cat. :) Chris Gray --------------------- >Um, flattery will get you everywhere, but: nobody's perfect, not even me. >Just ask my cat. :) "purr-fect purists"= purists who are brilliant, but still leave you feeling good catnip PS I'll be e-mailing your cat shortly. [follow ups to ciwa] %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Why don't they stick to children's popup books, which is obviously where they learned their skills? (uk.telecom comment on a certain kind of web designer) %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% _If_ this is relevant for a WWW group, which I doubt, then it would have to be c.i.www.misc, I'd say. Not that there's any point in discussing it, because we're obviously dealing with the "holistic" school of usenautics, whereby everything is related to everything else (which means there only has to be one usenet group, which of course would be called comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html for some deep mystical reason lost in the far reaches of time). Alan J. Flavell %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% wysiwYg (what you see is what YOU get) %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% "When you assume, you make an ass out of u and me" %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Tero Paananen wrote: >Nitpicking again? LOL...... Are you calling me a "closet Purist" :-) >Didn't you know, the JohnnyMnemonicBrowser is the kewlest little >gadget out there! I only wish my parser was a little better... >Something's wrong with the cache as well. I'm sure they'll come >up with upgrades soon enough, though Waiting for version 2.01, it engages RAM prior to activating 'sound'... Gil Harvey -------------------------- > Waiting for version 2.01, it engages RAM prior to >activating 'sound'... Sound? Sound you say!? Neural interfaces...damn you designers live in the stone ages, but then again you were the one calling yourself "old hippie" :) Tero Paananen -------------------------- >Neural interfaces...damn you designers live in the stone >ages, but then again you were the one calling yourself >"old hippie" :) Back in the 60's sounds well "groovy" :-) Does any one else here remember that? Gil Harvey -------------------------- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Gil Harvey wrote: [in response to catnip's FAQ post] > You know, we'd have time to deal with some of these > "off topic" issues if you didn't fill the NG up every day > playing self appointed keeper of the topic!!! You apparently weren't on the guest list for the appointment ceremony. I hope you understand that it's not really possible to invite *everyone.* If you'd like, I'll try to make sure that you're invited to the next ciwah ceremony. And if you'll RSVP promptly, you can choose to sit with the Purists or the Designers. It was quite a lovely affair... Our pal Bill [1] was the guest speaker, and Galactus came out of retirement to be the M.C. There were minstrels, jugglers, and lots of food. Everyone had a great time and the ceremony ended with a warm group hug. [1] You know which Bill.... this one --> ;o) Joey M. Jackson ------------------------- Gil Harvey wrote: > I think I got the invitation, but was scheduled to > watch some paint dry. :-) Ah, well then, it's your loss. > If I had know Galactus was going to MC I might have > made it... You should have read the invitation more closely... it was right there plain as day:

Special Guests

  • Bill Schlake, keynote address
  • Galactus, Master of Ceremonies
Joey M. Jackson ------------------------- > > If I had know Galactus was going to MC I might have >made it... Warren Steel did a song and dance routine. I have pictures... John Pozadzides ------------------------- >Warren Steel did a song and dance routine. I have pictures... I'm trying to picture that, but it just won't focus.... Let us know when the pics are posted:-) Gil Harvey ------------------------- > Warren Steel did a song and dance routine. I have pictures... I almost forgot about that since it actually took place at the reception following the ceremony. Warren's routine was as good as any other "performance art" that I've seen. He casually wandered in, placed a large piece of paper on the floor, and spray-painted "FONT" on it. Then he painted the soles of his boots with a different color and proceeded to stomp all over the word "FONT" writing "CSS" with the footprints... all the while singing (to the tune of "These Boots Were Made for Walking") "This FONT was made for stompin, and that's just what I'll do... One of these days CSS is gonna stomp all over you." Bravo Warren! Joey M. Jackson %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% You _could_ say that because such a large proportion of readers chose browsers whose default presentation is crap, it tells us that those readers don't care about presentation design. Alan J. Flavell %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% PWPH (People With Pointy Hair) %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Phil Stripling wrote: : To whom does MS market FrontPage? Someone pointed out some time ago that : WYSIWYG editors come in two flavors: a professional tool that gives : knowledgeable usesrs a quick way to get a page up and running, and a : beginners tool for those who have no idea how to do markup. The two flavors : seem to be mutually exclusive so far; the pro tools are too complicated : for beginngers, and the beginners' tools are, well, like FrontPage -- the : markup is garbage if you have no "idea of what you're doing." Again, to : whom does MS market the program? To PWPH (People With Pointy Hair), I suspect. It seems to be aimed at managers who want to get their departments "on the Internet" (or on a local Intranet) but don't want to either hire people who know something about HTML or train their staff in HTML. The premise is that FP will make page creation so easy that the pointy-haired boss can just give his clerical staff a copy and they can create the company's Internet Presence as they do their regular jobs. Given that most corporate Internet Presences are little more than attempts to mark territory by metaphorically pissing around its virtual borders, perhaps FP doesn't fall as far short as those who use HTML to do more advanced things would imagine. Some of the piss, though, seems to splatter on customers. Eric Bohlman %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% "Alan J. Flavell" writes: > Simon wrote: > > > How do you right click on a Mac? > > Hold the mouse down firmly until she squeaks > Then throw her in the air, and juggle her while standing on your hind legs. -- Chris Gray %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% $1500 is a lot of money to spend. As a less expensive alternative, you could go to a bookstore or to amazon.com and get some good introductions to design principles, such as Robin Williams' books "Your Mac is Not a Typewriter," "The Non-Designer's Design Book," and "The Non-Designer's Web Book." Then spend some time actually surfing the web and evaluating sites for ease of use. Michael Roeder %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% link farm Warren Steel %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% there are several free services which can be used to get a quick and useful review of a page, such as Delorie's Search Engine Simulator at http://www.delorie.com/web/ses.cgi %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% &val=$0.02 Chris Gray %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Chris Gray wrote: > Veronica Karlsson writes: > > Dave Ford wrote: > > > We're running an intranet in a school - we don't even had the > > > BIOS's passworded - so far the kids content themselves with shredding the > > > mousemats. > > > > > > Talking of which, anyone know where we can get indestructable mouse mats? > > > > No, sorry, mice are rodents. They'll eat through anything, but don't > > worry, it's "kitten season" so you should have no problem obtaining a > > cat to take care of your mouse problem for you. See alt.animals.felines > > for more info. > > Only problem with that is: ten years later you still have a cat, now grown > old, fat, lazy and bad-temepered, and only good for eating, sleeping, > shitting, and savaging newbies on comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html. But your mouse mats will still be intact. Veronica Karlsson %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% On Fri, 8 May 1998, Colin Edwards wrote: (somebody had rightly said) > >you probably need to set mime types on your web server. consult your web > >space provider or server documentation for information on how to make .mp3 a > >binary file type, rather than the default text type (most likely). > > I phoned the space provider, and this seems to be the case. However > getting it fixed will take some time. The whole architecture of the WWW is built upon the idea of a web server advertising what kind of content it is sending out, and getting it right. Any provider who doesn't play their part in that equation is not doing their job properly. Two server implementations known to me: Apache and NCSA, offer the ability for a content provider to control the advertised content type, by means of AddType directives in the relevant .htaccess file. This takes immediate effect (although it may be argued that it's slightly less efficient than putting the directives into the server's own configuration files). The ability to use this option is under the control of the server admin, but if they want to shirk doing their part of the job, maybe they should be invited to delegate this part of their task in this way to the owners of the content. Several content providers have discovered to their surprise (and in at least one case, also to the surprise of their poorly-briefed server admin!) that when they experimentally set up such a .htaccess file, it immediately worked for them. I can't guarantee anything, and I don't think you said what server software your provider is running, but you might consider trying it. > Meanwhile the files do seem to download correctly with Internet > Explorer, There is no definition of "correctly" with IE, as it violates the published specs. So, what you're really saying is that one bug seems to be compensating for another bug, and the end result was the one that you wanted. This isn't what I understand by the term "correct", though. > >>The page with the problem, is under construction at : > >>www.folkcorp.co.uk/jukebox/ Oh look. It's Apache. Well, why not at least try the .htaccess line: AddType type/subtype mp3 and see what happens. I don't actually know what type/subtype values are appropriate here - do you? The only registered type that involves mpeg seems to be "video/mpeg". At any rate you must have the server send something other than text/plain. You could always make up your own, like application/x-mp3 Alan J. Flavell %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Subject: Re: CRUELTY FREE WEB MASTERS ... Cowboy writes: > > Damn! And I was hoping to be a cruel webmaster. Dogbert! Long live > Dogbert! ;-> > Now, Cowboy, you are _supposed_ to comment on the markup -- e.g., lack of alt attributes for the images. Otherwise, the topic.police with send all your followups to the hinterlands of newsdom. Phil Stripling %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Jukka Korpela wrote: > Every page should contain _one_ contextual link, normally a link > upwards in a hierarchy of pages. Actually, I like the system of context links used by Jakob Nielsen at the top of every page at useit.com (one good example of his system is at ). In a concise way, he provides his readers with the full context of the current document, including its relationship to the overall site and to any parent subsites/articles. Darin McGrew %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% (John Savard) wrote: >And my links page originally didn't have a link back to the home page. >But I added one when I realized someone might get there _directly_ >from a search engine. > >I mean, they *could* go up to the field with the URL in it and >backspace... Fiddling with the location bar is akin to the "if I press this button, will I blow up my computer?" fear for many users. Clicking on a friendly little link is something they *can* deal with however, once they get the hang of it. I'm having flashbacks of how lost I used to get way back when I was a newbie. 'The horror! The horror!' (Apocolypse Now) catnip %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Gary E. Learned wrote: >A trick I learned early on, was to use an
    , with no list items >following it. It causes the indent to occur, on the left side. My >problem with style sheets, is that they are not universally supported >across all browser platforms, and I need to code for least common >denominator in many cases. > Unfortunately 'tricks' that rely on bugs have a nasty habit of vanishing in the next release of the software. So as everybody here says - the specs are a good place to start. On the other hand, people like to use tools to do things for which they weren't designed. For example. That box on your desk is called a 'computer' for historical reasons. People actually used to use similar (but larger/slower) devices to actually 'compute' things. Somebody went and broke the rules by actually writing a 'full screen editor' for such computers. Which everybody thought would never happen. Golly look, then somebody even went so far as to do desktop publishing with a computer. That's like using your slide rule to draw line art! Heresy. That option is definitely not mentioned any where in the manual! Now we have people who are bitching and complaining that people are using HTML to try to do DTP in a web browser. Oh no! Chaos! HTML wasn't meant for that! Shoot the bastrds! Call them idiots for not using HTML for what it was meant to be used for! The fact is, that HTML started out a a very simple markup language, which got a little more complicated - suddenly you could add images, tables oh boy, this sounds like somebody intentionally added the possibility of doing something like DTP. And now there are style sheets. If the people want to treat it as a DTP environment, then let them. You won't stop them, no matter how hard you try. You can sit in your corner and scream bloody murder, but the fact is that of the estimated 50 million people in the US who use the web, very few of them will every hear you scream. And many of them are quite happy to see pretty, desktop publishing 'drivel' on their 'computer' screens. Trust me the world is moving forward, no matter how hard you try to hold it back. You may see it as a great travesty that trusty old lynx won't show you any useful information. You obviously didn't need to see that information, so go look at another site. Some of us do make an effort to make a page that is viewable by any number of browsers, but in the world of heterogeneous computing, there is still no enforced standard for everything, and no matter how hard we try, somebody somewhere will not see or hear information as we intended it. On the note of maintaining a margin, as the thread apparently started out, there are ways of forcing browsers to leave space. Unfortunately, they do take bandwidth. But significantly less than all the screaming and shouting of all the bandwidth freaks who read this newsgroup. 1) make an gif image that is 1 x 1 pixel. 2) Make it one color (that should be easy). 3) Make that color transparent 4) Include that image in a table that contains your entire page. Put everything that you _want_ to appear in the margin in one cell, along with the blank image. 5) Now, tell the browser to display that image as wide as you want it, but 1 pixel high. 6) put a suitable alt tag in for the image so that people don't think they're missing something important. Of course, browsers that don't support transparent images will say something odd about this, and others that don't support tables will complain. "You can please some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time", as some wise person once said. Arunas Salkauskas %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Three times, as I was randomly surfing the web yesterday (something I rarely do: on the whole, I've a dozen sites that I consult daily for news and updates, and the rest of the web I ignore), I came across pages that appear to have decided that my 1152x864 display screen must all be taken up by the browser. Well, D-OH, NO! I bought a 17" monitor so I could have *more space for apps*. I log in and have my EMail, Usenet and Browser tiled nicely. Man, I'd have to turn my head from side-to-side to read a browser window that took up the entire width of the monitor. The lines of text would be hellishly long. Here's a hint for those clueless dumbfucks that are using resolution as a layout guide: there's a *REASON WHY NEWSPAPERS USE COLUMNS*. The big hint, boys, is that the eye "chunks" text into forty-odd character blocks as it reads. The closer a line is to the chunk size, the easier it is to read. And then I come into this newsgroup and see a couple of idiots posting code on how to read display width variables so that a page can use the entire width of the window... even if the browser is set to a readable width significantly less than a full screen... GAH! Some people should never, ever have been allowed near HTML and Javascript... they ain't got two braincells to rub together when it comes to producing readable pages. Take the rant to heart, webmasters. Go do some research into human interfaces. Learn a bit about how people's eyes and brains work. Get smart. David Priest %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% HTML and Sex have something in common. If you do them right they can be a lot of fun. And when I say do them right I mean you don't have to follow the strict rules, imagine if you are limited to only one sexual position. Boring ! Same with HTML.........experiment and enjoy yourself BTW.........I suppose the so called purist only ever use the Missionary position and yes this is a troll. -- Will %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% In my view, a well designed web site is one that adapts itself seamlessly to a wide range of browsing situations, so that it makes its content available to all readers while giving them the impression that the site was purpose-designed for just the situation that they are in, rather than continually pestering them to take different actions depending on what kind of browsing situation they are using. Alan J. Flavell %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% One major problem with sites designed by those who believe that a separate text-only site is the solution to a problem that wasn't there until they created it, is that they tend to keep the graphics-rich site up to date, and forget about the separate text-only site. Alan J. Flavell %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% HTML authoring is much like raising a child. You have a certain amount of control ie. creation and input, but the way the child actually functions in the real world is dependent upon that base, the circumstances it is placed in, and the choices it can make set by those limitations. (Another shameless Mother's Day plug.) catnip %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% There was a thread in comp.text.sgml about archiving of SGML documents. It may be of intrested to you. It started at: Subject: Long-Term Archiving of SGML Documents From: "W. Eliot Kimber" Date: 1997/06/17 Message-ID: <01bc7b4a$278d4fa0$301ac1cf@w.kimber> Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml%%HTH References: -- Russell O'Connor %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Shoe salesman #1 in Sahara desert: "There is no market here, nobody uses shoes" Shoe salesman #2 in Sahara desert: "Market is BOOMING, nobody uses shoes" %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Robert Hallgren | | Don't know if it means any improvement, but isn't
    also a | well-formed XML tag? Yes,

    and
    are equivalent in XML. I doubt that current browsers will accept that, but it may be worth a try. Lars Marius Garshol %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Jedi Master Yoda wrote: >Viktor Fougstedt wrote: >>Like NN and IE were the only browsers in the world... >> >>/Viktor..| who is wondering what would%happen if he wrote a really >> cool UNIX-only extension to netscape that was required to >> read some very, very interesting pages. > >That's the point, isn't it? I never yet came across a site that wasn't >accessible to my choice of browser that had anything I wanted to see >on it. Lynx-only website Welcome to my lynx-only website. Here you will find all kinds of top-secret information that we don't want-those windows weenies to know about. Just for fun, we'll throw them off the scent with the following meaningless drivel..| Hi! You're a way kewl d00d using a graphical browser. All really hip and with-it technophiles use Netscape or IE, yeah! Microsoft Rules! Extended HTML is they way of the future for all forms of digital communication! Yeah! Phew, thank god that's over. And now on with the top-secret unix-only information and the details of the secret conspiracy to take over the world... Kirrily 'Skud' Robert ---------------------------------------------------------------- Roger Balettie wrote: > >ROTFLMAO!!!! > >*Great* example, Skud! Thanks, but I realised today on the way to work that I could have done it better| The one I posted had a couple of faults, mostly that alt tags tend to show up when a Netscape or IE 4 user moves their mouse over the gif in question. On reflection, I think this would work better:
    Hi, lynx user! Here's the secret information for unix weenies only... And now for the bait for those graphical browser types; you can safely ignore anything below here. Graphical browsers are K3WL, yeah! Use Netscape and IE at all times! Anyone who doesn't use a trendy browser is way behind the times and is missing out on all kinds of really funky stuff /
    I think I'll put these on my webpage.-- Kirrily "Skud" Robert (skud@monash.edu.au) http://w3.cc.monash.edu.au/~krobert/ Relax. It's only zeroes and ones. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% [ 8< ] Intuit did a survey of their customer base for Turbo Tax and found for PCs that 98% ran Windows 95 or Windows 3.x and 2% ran Windows NT. So, applying Schlake's Law they ignored the 2%. They just verified that Turbo Tax 1997 would work under Windows 95. Well, lo and behold, the program would not even install under Windows NT! (Getting programs to run on both Windows 95 and Windows NT is not that difficult.) They also discovered something else when the complaints started rolling in, their marketing research was flawed and much more that 2% were using NT. They have promised to do better next year but they now have a whole bunch of angry customers. This is an HTML authoring group so let's consider the situation of a non-portable web site. The customers who can't render the site will most likely just silently go away because unlike with Intuit they have not put any money into the site. It is not worth the bother. Moreover, HTML sites have more competitors than Intuit has with Turbo Tax. So, they are losing money and they don't even know it. Following Schlake's Law can be hazardous to your pocketbook! -- Rich Blinne %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% edelhart@teleport.com wrote: > WARNING TO ALL DEVELOPERS! make copies -- preferably on CD-ROM -- of all the > work you do. You never know when your company can get hacked, go under, get > sold to Machiavelliosoft, or whatever. In the interests of long-term preservation, don't make copies to just one type of media. Try to get it on all currently supported media so that the probability of future recovery is greater. Even the latest, greatest technology could end up a technological dead end. Greg Berigan %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Lars Marius Garshol writes (quoting himself): : * Lars Marius Garshol : | : | This is just empty sophistry. If what you write were the case the : | BLOCKQUOTE element would be pointless. : : * toddh@not.earthlink.net : | : | You are saying I'm wrong, that this is not the case, that one cannot : | quote themself? : : Of course not. Phew, that was close. :) -- Chris Gray %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% -- Warning: end of message imminent. Stop reading now. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Bill's take on poetry: I love to pontificate,I'll never once concede... I'm grossly overblown, because I'm a damn purist, listen to me constantly moan and groan. William G. Schlake (April 5th, 1998) %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% You know you are a webmaster if... ... filling out your driving license application, you put "Eye color: #44AAFF". ... you are aggravated by various commercial "scrollers" as you think they take over your status bar. ... you get very annoyed seeing "construction ahead" signs on the road and take a different route. ... you never use your blinkers. ... reading a newspaper, you put your finger over the images to see whether they used "alt" tags for text-only browsers. ... you bend your newspaper in half to see how it will look on a lower resolution screen. ... when you hear somebody say "do it with style!", you object, saying that there might be compatibility issues. ... when grocery-shopping, you avoid the isle with java. ... the words "don't put this in your head" carry a very different meaning to you. ... the words "best hits" on a music CD make you raise your eye-brows. ... when going to the zoo, you spend most time looking at a lynx. ... the words "best used by" on a can of food make you throw it away. ... you criticize "War and Peace" because it takes "too darn long to download". ... you read "you know you're a web designer" article and it makes sense to you. All work and no play... :) Hope you enjoyed this just as much as I enjoyed thinking it up... :) Sinc, ---- Constantin Riabitsev ------------------------------------------------ Constantin Riabitsev wrote: > > You know you are a webmaster if... > > ... filling out your driving license application, you put "Eye color: > #44AAFF". LOL nice eye colour, not browser pallette though ;o) Jay Jay and/or Blaise ------------------------------------------------ You know you are a webmaster if... ... you start wearing contacts only because your natural eye color doesn't match the browser pallette. :) Sinc, ---- Constantin Riabitsev ------------------------------------------------ ...you insist on a WYSIWYG spouse/mate... catnip ------------------------------------------------ catnip wrote: > ...you insist on a WYSIWYG spouse/mate... > Only if he/she/it is fully user-configurable. Now excuse me while I re-boot my cat ... Chris Gray ------------------------------------------------ Constantin Riabitsev wrote: >You know you are a webmaster if... > >... you start wearing contacts only because your natural eye color >doesn't match the browser pallette. Or they aren't one of the 216 'safe' pallette colors. Mark Waterous ------------------------------------------------ Constantin Riabitsev wrote: >You know you are a webmaster if... > >... you start wearing contacts only because your natural eye color >doesn't match the browser pallette. 1. You start using tags in your handwritten letters. 2. All of your dreams at night begin "" 3. You start putting alt tags on the back of your snapshots. 4. Your legal will is in html. 5. You seriously think about webcasting your marraige/funeral. 6. You get hives if you don't check your email at least twice a day while on vacation. 7. Your upset that Stop -N- Go doesn't have online real time price and availability for you local store. 8. You have the HTML 4.0 specs bookmarked prominently. 9. You wish there were style sheets for your clothes. 10. You know what your site looks like in lynx (now that's an oldie but goodie :) Mark Garrett ------------------------------------------------ Mark Garrett wrote: > >2. All of your dreams at night begin "" > But without the appropriate DTD, how can they ever be properly analysed? (Freud) Ian. ------------------------------------------------ You know you are a webmaster if... ... you own 3 cars -- one for its speed, another for its luxury, and the third, a really old one, to check if the roads you drive are still backwards compatible. ... the phrase "ancient scripts" makes no sense to you. ... before turning in your term papers, you run them through validator.w3.org. ... you call your/your wife's makeup "color coding". ... when somebody asks you the way to the nearest gas station, you say "go 30% down this road, turn to the left and drive 70% down Main...". ... you re-decorate your house and tell about it in comp.infosystems.www.* groups. ... your car's license plate number shows how many hits you took. ... your "dear John" letters end with "/dear John" ... whenever you see a "Peugeot 404" you think about checking your hyperlinks. ... none of the pictures in your house are framed. ... your girlfriend/boyfriend leaves you when you call a most awesome sunrise a "bad use of javascript". ... not only you alt-sign your family pictures, you also write their exact height and width on the back for faster family album rendering. ... your house has two doors: one for high-bandwidth people, another for low-bandwidth. ... when asked to describe yourself, you start spitting out keywords. ... friends love playing golf with you since you always go for how many hits you can get. OK... I've got some other stuff to do... Finals are near.. :) Hope you enjoyed that. Sinc, ---- Constantin Riabitsev ------------------------------------------------ You know you are a web designer if... You buy a HTML Writers Guild T-shirt... yes sad but true, there sre tshirts on sale with an html tag on front/back? Jay ------------------------------------------------ Jay wrote: >You know you are a web designer if... >You buy a HTML Writers Guild T-shirt... Hmmm...sounds like a good fashion statement to me. :-) catnip ------------------------------------------------ Jay wrote: >You know you are a web designer if... >You buy a HTML Writers Guild T-shirt... I hope the T-shirt has on the front and on the back. -- Robert Bethune ------------------------------------------------ Robert Bethune wrote: >I hope the T-shirt has on the front and on the back. No need. Both tags may be omitted. Bill, president of the "Who says a DTD is no source of humour" society. ------------------------------------------------ Robert Bethune wrote: >I hope the T-shirt has on the front and on the back. With a variation for women: Front side: gorgeous Back side: catnip :-) ------------------------------------------------ Robert Bethune wrote: >I hope the T-shirt has on the front and on the back. You mean you don't have that tatooed on your flesh? wuss! Dave ------------------------------------------------ Ian Taylor wrote: >> >>2. All of your dreams at night begin "" >> >But without the appropriate DTD, how can they ever be properly >analysed? > >(Freud) Ian. > My DTD would be: catnip :-) ------------------------------------------------ catnip wrote: >My DTD would be: > I think you mean: References: Russell O'Connor --------------------- I'll buy that. :-) catnip ------------------------------------------------ > >My DTD would be: > > LOL! Private? We all know you can't hide your source code. ;-) I think I'd have to consider some sort of content rating declaration. Wouldn't want to offend any small children out there. Ian Taylor --------------------- Well now, if the contents of my dreams were public, they would definitely require some kind of rating. But...that's another thread or newsgroup completely. ;-) catnip ------------------------------------------------ Chris Gray wrote: > catnip wrote: > > Constantin Riabitsev wrote: > > > > > >You know you are a webmaster if... > > > > > ...you insist on a WYSIWYG spouse/mate... > > > > catnip > > Only if he/she/it is fully user-configurable. > > Now excuse me while I re-boot my cat ... Must be an NT cat. REBUS ------------------------------------------------ You know you're a purist if upon dying and making it to heaven, instead of being happy you didn't end up in hell, the first thing you do is demand to speak to God, so you can complain bitterly heaven isn't up to specs and not accessible to everyone. William G. Schlake ------------------------------------------------ >> >>2. All of your dreams at night begin "" >> >But without the appropriate DTD, how can they ever be properly >analysed? I'd find it quite annoying having to validate all my dreams. Mark Waterous ------------------------------------------------ > I'd find it quite annoying having to validate all my dreams. My Kindler Gentler Therapist does that validation for me for free. (Ain't socialized medicine great?) catnip ------------------------------------------------ REBUS writes: > Chris Gray wrote: > > Now excuse me while I re-boot my cat ... > Must be an NT cat. Actually she's NetBSD, but I thought "kill -HUP my cat" might be misunderstood ... Chris Gray ------------------------------------------------ Chris Gray wrote: > > Actually she's NetBSD, but I thought "kill -HUP my cat" might be > misunderstood ... > Personally I prefer the Linux Feline OS. Doesn't eat much, never bites the hand that feeds it, never needs to be re-booted (don't you just love those little white paws?). But then, we are way off topic. REBUS ------------------------------------------------ William Schlake wrote: > You know you're a purist if upon dying and making it to heaven, > instead of being happy you didn't end up in hell, the first thing you > do is demand to speak to God, so you can complain bitterly heaven > isn't up to specs and not accessible to everyone. Hmm... I seem to remember "my priest" claiming that heaven _is_ accessible to everyone. The key had something to do with how to behave towards others in person, speech, writing and soul, if my memory does not fail totally. -- Jan Roland Eriksson ------------------------------------------------ Jan Roland Eriksson wrote: >The key had something to do with how to behave towards others in person, >speech, writing and soul, if my memory does not fail totally. > Seems your memory has failed. Not even close. Suggested reading: Bible New Testament Try John 3:15-18 and John 14:6 for a couple clues. William G. Schlake ------------------------------------------------ William Schlake wrote: > > Try John 3:15-18 and John 14:6 for a couple clues. > Man, I'd hate to get stuck in a lift with you!! Gary ------------------------------------------------ William Schlake wrote: > > Try John 3:15-18 and John 14:6 for a couple clues. > You know you're a webmaster if... ... talking about HTML can lead you to talking about religion (and vice versa). This is getting quite far from what I indended this thread to be... How about changing the subject, guys... Constantin Riabitsev ------------------------------------------------ >The key had something to do with how to behave towards others in person, >speech, writing and soul, if my memory does not fail totally. Ahhh, sounds like it's an interface issue after all :) Kirrily "Skud" Robert ------------------------------------------------ Okay...you know you're a webmaster if: ...you know your shoe size in pixels and percentages... ...your friends start putting up "HTML Free Zone" signs in their homes... ...all of your family pictures have frames that state my_family ...your mom proudly tells her friends that you're now one of those "internet thingie computer type people" while silently cursing because she can never get through on your phone line. ...everybody and their dog wants you to design a page about their dog... ...your modem is worth its weight in gold... ...you think in acronyms... ...your cats know the only way they'll get your attention is to either stand right in front of your monitor or to sit right on top of your mouse. ...they also enjoy frequent jaunts over your keyboard... ...resolution is no longer just a New Year's Eve thing... ...tag, web, element, robot, spider, and validation will never mean the same thing again... ...your thoughts are all contained in brackets... ...you think in terms of strong and italic... ...your mate is suddenly 404-Mate not found... ...you wish life came with instant error messages... and on and on... catnip ------------------------------------------------ Tero Paananen wrote: > Chris Gray writes: > > Tero Paananen wrote: > > > Constantin Riabitsev wrote: > > > > Chris Gray wrote: > > > > > catnip writes: > > > > > > ...your mate is suddenly 404-Mate not found... > > > > > > > > > >Hm, mine returns 403 Forbidden ... > > > > > > > >The worst would be "Too many users, please try again later"... > > > > > > Permanently redirected to... > > > >You're all wrong, the worst *has* to be 402. ;> > > 411 Length Required > Mine says "don't worry honey, we'll just disable the anti virus software and try to reboot". Simon ------------------------------------------------ > >Try John 3:15-18 and John 14:6 for a couple clues. Where's the hyperlink? Michael David McCrea ------------------------------------------------ Michael David McCrea wrote: > William Schlake wrote: > >Try John 3:15-18 and John 14:6 for a couple clues. >Where's the hyperlink? Try bible://john/3#15-18 and bible://john/14#6 Bill Godfrey ------------------------------------------------ > > > Now excuse me while I re-boot my cat ... > > Must be an NT cat. > > Actually she's NetBSD, but I thought "kill -HUP my cat" might be > misunderstood ... > Personally I prefer the Linux Feline OS. Doesn't eat much, never bites the hand that feeds it, never needs to be re-booted (don't you just love those little white paws?). But then, we are way off topic. S. Katt ------------------------------------------------ catnip wrote: > >Okay...you know you're a webmaster if: > >...you know your shoe size in pixels and percentages... I'd be wary about relative shoe sizes, or ones that resized themselves according to what others see. >...your friends start putting up "HTML Free Zone" signs in their >homes... ..or all the family pictures are now pinned up on a bulletin board with a big overhanging sign that says 'Frame free zone'... >...all of your family pictures have frames that state my_family Don't you mean: FRAMEBORDER="Yes" BORDERTYPE="wood"? :) >...your mom proudly tells her friends that you're now one of those >"internet thingie computer type people" while silently cursing because >she can never get through on your phone line. I find excellent use for two phone lines thank you... :) >...everybody and their dog wants you to design a page about their >dog... Tell the dog to hop on the scanner. If he goes for it, you go for it. >...your modem is worth its weight in gold... ...your modem beat out your BMW in the wind tunnel... >...you think in acronyms... DBTUA. (Don't bring that up again). >...your cats know the only way they'll get your attention is to either >stand right in front of your monitor or to sit right on top of your >mouse. Funny, mine just plays with the CDrom open/close button. >...they also enjoy frequent jaunts over your keyboard... >...resolution is no longer just a New Year's Eve thing... This year I resolve to make myself viewable to those on 640x480 screen resolutions... >...tag, web, element, robot, spider, and validation will never mean >the same thing again... Ever seen the look on the face of a spider when you try to submit your page to him, and it just wrecks his web? >...your thoughts are all contained in brackets... Hey, don't go there. >...you think in terms of strong and italic... strong, and em, damnit. Not italic, em. >...your mate is suddenly 404-Mate not found... Hey, stop bringing your personal life into this... (ooh, forgive me, or hit me later) >...you wish life came with instant error messages... ...you go to change the laundry from washer to dryer, and wonder why the file transfer didn't work. Mark Waterous ------------------------------------------------ Constantin Riabitsev wrote: > Chris Gray wrote in message ... > > catnip) writes: > > > > > > ...your mate is suddenly 404-Mate not found... > > > > Hm, mine returns 403 Forbidden ... > >The worst would be "Too many users, please try again later"... Ouch, good call. Doctor doctor! Come quick! Code blue emergency, we have another 500 internal error! Mark Waterous ------------------------------------------------ > >Permanently redirected to... 3 second refresh... wait, no, that could be good... Mark Waterous ------------------------------------------------ p116711@cc.tut.fi (Tero Paananen) writes: | In Chris Gray writes: | | >: >:> ...your mate is suddenly 404-Mate not found... | >: >: | >: >:Hm, mine returns 403 Forbidden ... | >: | >: >The worst would be "Too many users, please try again later"... | >: | >: Permanently redirected to... | | >You're all wrong, the worst *has* to be 402. ;> | | 411 Length Required OK, I submit. You win. -- Chris "even a purist can be wrong sometimes" Gray ------------------------------------------------ Asher Family wrote: > > You might be a web designer if....... > > ..You hear the word "Java" and don't think of coffee. > ..You refuse to frame pictures in your home. > ..Everything in your house is "backwards compatible." > ..You own 20 browsers, so you can check out pages you're developing on > each one. > ..You violently oppose non-validated pages. > ..You've ever bragged about authoring a page in Notepad. (sincere > apologies if this one has been given.) > > Ralph How about writing pages in vi?? Reid Gravelle ------------------------------------------------ Asher Family wrote: >You might be a web designer if....... > >..You hear the word "Java" and don't think of coffee. >..You refuse to frame pictures in your home. >..Everything in your house is "backwards compatible." >..You own 20 browsers, so you can check out pages you're developing on >each one. >..You violently oppose non-validated pages. >..You've ever bragged about authoring a page in Notepad. (sincere >apologies if this one has been given.) > Sounds more like a "purist" to me... catnip ------------------------------------------------ > How about writing pages in vi?? You can "write pages" *using* vi, and a lot of people do so; but I don't think you can really write *in* vi, because vi isn't a language. Try TECO or elisp. Chris Gray ------------------------------------------------ > You can "write pages" *using* vi, and a lot of people do so; but I don't > think you can really write *in* vi Now *THAT*'s a purist! Jeffery Chow ------------------------------------------------ >Now *THAT*'s a purist! Yes, and he's *our* purist. ;-) catnip Hi Chris! ------------------------------------------------ > Yes, and he's *our* purist. ;-) (*^.^*) Chris Gray ------------------------------------------------ >>Now *THAT*'s a purist! > >Yes, and he's *our* purist. ;-) > >catnip Purist, purist, purist...I found myself using that word in school the other day...I gotta stop hanging around you people! :) ErasedNine ------------------------------------------------ >Purist, purist, purist...I found myself using that word in school the other >day...I gotta stop hanging around you people! > >:) Yes, we're actually a cult and quickly brainwash our new recruits. Welcome! Now say this 50 times: accessibilty catnip ------------------------------------------------ > Now say this 50 times: accessibilty > > catnip I tried that, and now my tongue has given me a Runtime Error -- Out of Saliva Lenny Laks Another newbie to this group ------------------------------------------------ > I tried that, and now my tongue has given me a Runtime Error -- Out of Saliva Runtime Error? When I did it I got out of memory! Simon %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% William G. Schlake wrote: > Keir Finlow-Bates wrote: > >> Which came first, the chicken or the egg? > > > >The egg. Dinosaurs were laying eggs way before the first chicken > >evolved. > > OK then, which came first, the dinosaur or the egg? > No. It's, which came first, the hypotenuse or the radius REBUS ------------------------------------------------------------- William G. Schlake wrote: > OK then, which came first, the dinosaur or the egg? The egg.....Fish where hatching eggs far before any of them decided to move to dry land and be a dinoaur Melana Hiatt ------------------------------------------------------------- William G. Schlake wrote: >OK then, which came first, the dinosaur or the egg? The egg. Reptiles were laying eggs long before the first dinosaur. And fish were laying eggs long before the first reptile - and ... Stanley Friesen ------------------------------------------------------------- Tim Coleman wrote: >Malcolm Mitchell wrote: >>From my site counters, well it is clearly IE4, as 89% of my viewers have >>used IE4, thus I have dedicated it to IE4 users! > >Which came first, the chicken or the egg? The rooster! Fat Chuck %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Thomas Adams wrote: > > Some web authors program their pages in a way that makes me feel like > being in jail, i.e. I don't get out of their site with the navigation > buttons. Could anybody explain their reasons for this? They're operating on a modification of the First Ferengi Rule of Acquisition: Once you've caught a customer don't ever let him go. Greg Berigan %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Will wrote: >Greg Berigan wrote: >> Will wrote [in response to a chain letter]: >> > >> > PISS OFF >> >> Oh gee, thanks for reprinting the whole thing, we all really needed it, >> especially those of use who never saw the pyramid scam in the first place >> and may never have seen it. > >Yes.......realised straight away after replying. Sorry about that. >Yeek, my god......I've apologised in "advocacy"....maybe I have >broken the "charter".....if so , sorry again. Yeek, my god I have >done it again but seriously I humbly apologise. > LOL! Stop that Wil. This is no place for civility. ;-) catnip %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% On Sun, 05 Apr 1998 20:47:17 GMT, leslie@clinton.net (Leslie) wrote: >For an example on why people should not be using frames go to: > >http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Palms/6659/ > >It has to be the WORST use of frames I've EVER seen! > Damn!! That's *my* page! hehehehe...just kidding Call the html police. There's been a violation. That much crap on one page *must* be illegal in several countries! catnip %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% What I'm saying is, don't make a page to impress people (e.g. "Look what I can!"), but make a page which people like because of the contents, not layout (eg. "Look what I got"). Martin Schapendonk %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Well, one thing is, I generally feel that the purpose of posting to usenet is to distribute information which I want to last forever. I put things on a web page which may be topical, and thus, which I may want to expire. I'm glad someone archives what I say. If the year is >2300 when you read this, Hi! :) -s -- Copyright '98, All rights reserved. Peter Seebach / seebs@plethora.net C/Unix wizard, Pro-commerce radical, Spam fighter. Boycott Spamazon! Not speaking for my employer. Questions on C/Unix? Send mail for help. Visit my new ISP ---More Net, Less Spam! %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% And one problem with the "grab the reader's attention" model for the Web is that it is a *pull* medium. By the time the reader gets to your page, you have *already* captured their attention - if you hadn't, they would not even *be* there. What the Web page needs to do is *hold* the user's attention, and interest. I think when actual actuarial studies are done on Web page utility, this is what will be found. Stanley Friesen %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% My take on a WYSIWYG editor would be one that renders HTML as the author wrote it ie. not throwing in extraneous garbage in the final process. I like Anansi. catnip %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Alan J. Flavell wrote: [ 8< ] >Give us a URL and someone will help. Or do you think there are >telepaths on this group? Well...there are psychopaths and sociopaths. My ESP tells me there must be telepaths too. ;-) catnip %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Oops I am wandering massively off topic. Reboot user. Neil Franklin %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Tessa wrote: > Hi, does anyone know if theres an upgrade available for frontpage 97 to > 98... thanks steve@clo.com The best upgrade path for Front Page is a path directly to the trash can. Edward %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% REBUS wrote: >If a page evolves on the 'net, but no one sees it, does it make an >impression one hand clapping catnip %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% erik.sandblom@hgus.gu.se wrote: > >I haven't tried HotDog, but I love Webwerx. It lets you make all tags via the >keyboard (also has buttons though) and also lets you make 20 of your very own >tags or combinations of tags. It is less than a megabyte installed, but it 20 of YOUR OWN TAGS? Goodness me, I hope not! Coming soon to a browser near you: Skud's HTML Extensions Technical Information: the element Start tag: required. End tag: required. Attribute definitions: OS The operating system for which the information is supplied. This may be "unix" "mswindows" "macos" et cetera, and is provided for informational purposes only. UAs may choose to display or hide technical information based on its relevance to the platform under which it is running. UI The degree of usefulness of information, expressed as a number relative to zero. Thus slightly useful information would have UI=+1 while fairly useless information would be UI=-10 or more. There is no limit to the usefulness or uselessness which may be specified, except as implied by the size of the NUMBER data type. UAs may display technical information differently depending on its usefulness. The following examples demonstrate appropriate use of the element: Typing ls will give you a directory listing The best way to shut down is to click on the button next to the power socket on the wall. Kirrily "Skud" Robert %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% On 9 Apr 1998 01:48:48 +0100, bill.godfrey@motel.overflow.com wrote: >Bill, president of the "American football a tough game? Ha! I laugh at >these so-caled tough sportsmen who feel the need to wear 12 foot of >armour that would put the average crusader to shame. I fart in thier >general direction and wave my privates at thier aunties." society. > "Your father smelled of elderberries and your mother was a hamster". catnip ------------------------------------------- >"Your father smelled of elderberries and your mother was a hamster". I am insulted! From the very first post I made to CIWAH I have been attacked. People just can't seem to cope with reality, and so have to resort to name calling. All I do is hold up the mirror. You purists should take a good look sometime. Bill Godfrey President of the "That was a bloddy great big space" society. ------------------------------------------- On 10 Apr 1998 00:28:07 +0100, bill.godfrey@motel.overflow.com wrote: >>"Your father smelled of elderberries and your mother was a hamster". > >I am insulted! From the very first post I made to CIWAH I have been >attacked. People just can't seem to cope with reality, and so have to >resort to name calling. All I do is hold up the mirror. You purists >should take a good look sometime. > >Bill Bill > > > > > > > >Godfrey > Schlake? > > >President of the "That was a bloddy great big space" society. catnip (A huge Holy Grail fan) %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Peter Caffin wrote: > >In the end, any site which has more effort put into the appearance than the >actual information is a bit of a waste *grin*. Amen to that! Here's to content-based sites. If I have to deal with yet another person who thinks like that IBM ad that's playing at the moment (in this part of the world anyway) I'm gonna scream! "This article says that we need to get on the internet." "Why?" "I don't know, it doesn't say." This approach always leads to a website with, well, no purpose whatsoever. Surprise surprise. Sometimes it takes a large, blunt instrument and considerable force to beat into people's heads the idea that if you don't have anything to say, you're better off not bothering than going to all the trouble of getting out a soapbox and a megaphone then standing there saying "Um..." So to speak. Perhaps that metaphor's a little tenuous, perhaps not. Kirrily "Skud" Robert %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > that says nested >tables aren't recommended. All I can say is, that during my self-given tutorial on "Everything you ever wanted to do with HTML and have the time for," if the above were true, I'd be so screwed, Black & Decker couldn't unscrew me and I'd be forced to run the following markup on my biological browser (a.k.a. MicroShot Brainnet Exploder): McDonald's patrons PS--I bookmark and/or print out all my references I find. And besides...what would be the point of using tables if you can't stack them? I also never caught the "why" part of not nesting tables either... Shotgun %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
    is a generic block container that can serve as a hook for - internationalization attributes, - presentation suggestions from style sheets. does the same for inline content. Very handy. -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% >Typing tags can be such a bore. You start your image viewer, then >you check out the width and height of the image you´re about to type the > tag for, then you return to your text editor and by the time >you´ve typed the name of the file you´ll have forgotten the width and >height... So you return to your image viewer to check these, and back to >your text editor... And so on... And so on... > >http://www.comwell.se/samuel/SOFTWARE/sftITG.html Long time ago, I had some software called "wwwimagesize" which would go through an HTML file, check the width and height of all the stated images (so long as they were relative urls and images were on disk) and write those attributes into the file. No idea where youd get that these days. Try a serach engine. Bill Godfrey %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% In article <1998041004105301.AAA27997@ladder03.news.aol.com>, TomAherne wrote: >jg@nospam.demon.co.uk (James Green) wrote: > >>While off-topic I know many experienced writers of HTML use Notepad >>for sheer speed and control :) > >I think "Notepad" is sometimes used as a generic term for "text editor" in the >same way that "Kleenex" is used for tissues. (That shows how much Bill Gates >has invaded our culture.) > >However, in my darker moments, I think that some authors may feel that it is >somehow macho to say that they use Notepad for web authoring. It is like a >fisherman bragging that he uses a hand-line to fish for marlin. Luxury! When I were a lad, we used to have to edit the webpages by hand-punching cards! We'd get up at 6 o'clock the night before, and work all night and day cutting little rectangular holes with nothing to sustain us but the chad. And our web server was a guy standing on a hill with a pair of semaphore flags. If you tell that to young people today, they wouldn't believe you! >I cannot imagine a professional web author using Notepad for the following >task: a 50 page site needs the same change on all the pages. Try doing this >with an editor that does not have a search-and-replace feature. No thanks! Notepad has search and replace features; if "notepad" is used to mean "text editor" as you mentioned above, then this is even more the case. >Why not use the appropriate tool for the job at hand? I am a mathematician. It >may look macho to use a slide rule, but why use that when a calculator does a >much better job? The "appropriate tool" in this case would be transclusions using Server Side Include or some similar technology. I've maintained websites of hundreds of pages in size and by moving common, shared text into small SSI chunks have been able to update, for instance, contact information on each page with only one file edit. And FYI, I was using vi to author and maintain that site. K. -- Kirrily "Skud" Robert %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > Is it sensible to mess about with link colours at all. People expect blue, > if they don't get it will they realise that your links are links at all?
    Just marking text with communicates NOTHING to the user. Any text could be blue and underlined, and any image could have a blue border, so just marking a hypertext link with that tells the user NOTHING. In all cases, you must make it clear to the user that what you have surrounded with .. is in fact a link they can follow to go to another page with an extra comment like "Click here". There's nothing special about how links are rendered that tells the user that they are links! Any reasonable person can see that!
    Greg Berigan %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% wrote: >Anyone, what's the difference between REL and REV? REL indicates a relationship (e.g., next, previous) and REV indicates the reverse relationship. For example, if foo.html comes before bar.html, they might contain the following LINK elements: in foo.html: in bar.html: They could also have the following REV relationships: in foo.html: in bar.html: They mean the same thing. -- Darin McGrew ---------------------------------------------------------- In article , Chris Gray wrote: > >However I've never understood why "made" is a REV. Nonetheless I put a > >in everything I do. At least lynx understands me. Because Chris Gray made the document. ``The document made Chris Gray'' would be untrue. -- Russell O'Connor ---------------------------------------------------------- In article <352dac23.2163676@pop.americasttv.com>, Stanley Friesen wrote: >Direction with respect to the *current* resource (page). > > means "THIS page is previous to the page >pointed at". > > means "The page pointed at is previous to >this one". Yes, further Next and Prev (It is Prev not Previous. Granted standards haven't been very consistant about this.) usually come in pairs. -- Russell O'Connor %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% In message , Alan J. Flavell wrote: | Naturally, you'll want a tool that helps you make your imagemaps. Check | out the tools group etc. for resources (myself I use Map_THIS on Win-PC | platform, but it's no longer supported). If you are using an X Window System box, there is a *great* aid called imaptool, however, it only does client side image maps. (Server side maps are hardly necessary in current times, except when used in silly things like "shoot Barney.") (Followups to ciwa.tools.) -- Shawn K. Quinn %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% I think "Notepad" is sometimes used as a generic term for "text editor" in the same way that "Kleenex" is used for tissues. (That shows how much Bill Gates has invaded our culture.) TomAherne %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Russell Steven Shawn O'Connor wrote: > >Is there a good way to code tables so lynx browsers can handle them? > Perhaps by not using tables and using the TAB element instead. Perhaps, with a lot of caution, and a lot of experimentation. The TAB element was in the 1995 draft, but is not in HTML 2.0, 3.2, or 4.0, and among current browsers is implemented only in Lynx. Since recent lynxes routinely insert BR between table rows, it might be possible to separate the cells in a given row using the TAB element. It would not by syntactically valid, any more than TABLE within PRE (which may also be helpful to lynx users without changing the display for others). In fact, Alan Flavell has tested this approach at http://ppewww.ph.gla.ac.uk/%7Eflavell/tabtab.html Readers may judge for themselves the result. A few browsers (including UdiWWW and perhaps Arena) may suffer complications, since they recognize both TAB and TABLE elements. -- Warren Steel %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Jenna Farnham wrote: > >For an internet site, you could provide less-specific instructions more >along the lines of, "Click to view, do whatever your browser likes to >download. Here's how some of the more popular browsers do it: " >This would probably cover even those with a voice-activated system, >since they'd have seen enough "click here" links to know how to deal >with them. ;) > [ 8< ] Anyway, browser specifics aside. Can you imagine a world where instead of "bake for 20 minutes at 180c" the instructions said: If you have a gas oven, light the gas and set the temperature to 180c, then put the pie in the oven. If you have an electric oven, set the temperature to 180c, then allow the oven to pre-heat before placing the pie in the oven. If your oven is marked in fahrenheit, convert to celsius by (algorithm supplied, I forget what it is). If you cannot calculate this in your head, use a calculator. If you have a Casio-XYZ calculator, press the "ON" button followed by the one, eight and zero buttons, the multiplication button (which should look like this: X), etc etc etc... In many parts of our life, we have to assume that people can perform basic tasks, otherwise we will bog ourselves down in endless verbosity while frustrating and alienating anyone who *does* know how to perform the task in question (would you buy that cookbook, if it existed? I wouldn't!). [ 8< ] And just for completeness' sake, here's a list of what I consider to be "basic" tasks for users of modern web client software: * accessing a page via a URL * following a hypertext link ("Click here" is patronizing at best) * saving a document * bookmarking a document * printing a document * going "BACK" * filling in a form * moving around a single document (eg scrolling up and down) * sending email Anyone who provides instructions for these tasks is, IMHO, insulting their users :) *Especially* if they provide browser-dependent instructions. Kirrily "Skud" Robert %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Have you tried http://www.rankthis.com/ to cross compare where your page scores in the various search engines? Robbie Baldock ---------------------------------- >Have you tried http://www.rankthis.com/ to cross compare where your >page scores in the various search engines? > I have used Position Agent http://www.positionagent.com/ which does pretty much the same thing. Warren Lauzon %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% http://www.eff.org/pub/Net_culture/Folklore/Humor/godwins.law From: Mike Godwin Subject: Godwin's Law To: mech@eff.org (Stanton McCandlish) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 13:39:39 -0500 (EST) Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one. Gordon's Restatement of Newman's Corollary to Godwin's Law: Libertarianism (pro, con, and internal faction fights) is *the* primordial netnews discussion topic. Anytime the debate shifts somewhere else, it must eventually return to this fuel source. Morgan's Corollary to Godwin's Law: As soon as such a comparison occurs, someone will start a Nazi-discussion spinoff thread on alt.censorship. Sircar's Corollary: If the USENET discussion touches on homosexuality or Heinlein, Nazis or Hitler are mentioned within three days. Van der Leun's Corollary: As global connectivity improves, the probability of actual Nazis being on the net approaches one. Miller's Paradox: As a network evolves, the number of Nazi comparisons not forestalled by citation to Godwin's Law converges to zero. Date: Sun, 25 Sep 94 13:55:15 est From: "Chris G. Topher Hughes" To: mnemonic@EFF.ORG Subject: Godwin's Law on Muds yup...its called Godwin's law...it was probably imported from Usenet, but its mutated to: "Anytime the players outnumber the wizards by 3 to 1 or more, at least one wizard will be accused of being a fascist with delusions of grandeur" Ive heard it on 3 or 4 different MUDs now.... thought you'd like to know its spreading more.... http://www.eff.org/pub/Net_culture/Folklore/Humor/godwins.law From: Mike Godwin Subject: Godwin's Law To: mech@eff.org (Stanton McCandlish) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 13:39:39 -0500 (EST) Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one. Gordon's Restatement of Newman's Corollary to Godwin's Law: Libertarianism (pro, con, and internal faction fights) is *the* primordial netnews discussion topic. Anytime the debate shifts somewhere else, it must eventually return to this fuel source. Morgan's Corollary to Godwin's Law: As soon as such a comparison occurs, someone will start a Nazi-discussion spinoff thread on alt.censorship. Sircar's Corollary: If the USENET discussion touches on homosexuality or Heinlein, Nazis or Hitler are mentioned within three days. Van der Leun's Corollary: As global connectivity improves, the probability of actual Nazis being on the net approaches one. Miller's Paradox: As a network evolves, the number of Nazi comparisons not forestalled by citation to Godwin's Law converges to zero. Date: Sun, 25 Sep 94 13:55:15 est From: "Chris G. Topher Hughes" To: mnemonic@EFF.ORG Subject: Godwin's Law on Muds yup...its called Godwin's law...it was probably imported from Usenet, but its mutated to: "Anytime the players outnumber the wizards by 3 to 1 or more, at least one wizard will be accused of being a fascist with delusions of grandeur" Ive heard it on 3 or 4 different MUDs now.... thought you'd like to know its spreading more.... Topher Hughes >Newsgroups: rec.humor.funny >Subject: Trial of the Century to end soon >From: chesler@sunspot.tiac.net (David Chesler) >Keywords: topical, smirk, USENET >Approved: funny-request@clari.net >Message-ID: >Date: Fri, 29 Sep 95 3:20:13 EDT > > > We can be assured that the OJ Simpson trial will be ending soon, >as defense attorney Johnny Cochrane has invoked Godwin's Law by >likening Detective Mark Furhman to Adolph Hitler -- so no further >rational discourse is possible. > >-- >Selected by Jim Griffith. MAIL your joke to funny@clari.net. >Attribute the joke's source if at all possible. A Daemon will auto-reply. > >Remember: PLEASE spell check and proofread your jokes. You think I have >time to hand-correct everybody's postings? > ----------------- http://www.cybernothing.org/jdfalk/media-coverage/archive/msg02314.html Godwin's Law isn't a human-imposed law. That's the problem. It's more like a natural law, of the sort of "what goes up must come down". Mentioning Nazis causes a large increase in tensions on _all_ sides. And, instantly, everything escalates, and is utterly useless within about three posts. It takes at least _four_ normally. Tim Skirvin %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Veronica Karlsson wrote: > I played a little with that document (yes, I'm bored): > > I changed [...] > I also added [...] > [...] so I changed that too. Nice work, Veronica. I'm pleased to find another potential member of my new support group "Web Fiddlers Anonymous" out there. "Er...hi, I'm Veronica and I correct people's pages without payment" "Hi Veronica. We understand you!" celigne@celigne.co.uk %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Fredrik Staxaeng wrote: > Mike Anderson wrote: > > > > In summary > > > > Metaphor: bad > > Unambiguous Symbolic Vocabulary with well defined > > semantics: good. > > I disagree. Text is good, icons and metaphor are just ornaments that > should be removed as computer technology grows into its own instead > of mimicking earlier technologies. > > On the other hand, the visibility of the interface, graphical > representations of _data_ and direct manipulation are good things. Direct manipulation is a metaphor that applies to the form of interaction with the computer - not an alternative to metaphor. You can't really manipulate the data - it isn't physical - and manipulation is certainly not direct. Don't confuse graphics with metaphors. 'Move' is a metaphor (the data stays where it is and a directory entry changes) whether it is a text command in UNIX or dragging an icon on a Mac. All languages develop through metaphor and metonymy. These gradually die but the term stays in the language. The same is happening with computers: Someone suggested I cut and paste some material - I protested I didn't have it on a suitable computer. He actually meant scissors and paste! In other words the metaphor for me, as someone using it for over ten years, had died. To a recent computer user like him, it was still a metaphor and he assumed the original meaning as the dominant one. Even the term metaphor (transport) was originally a metaphor - the luggage conveyors at Athens airport are called metaphora. It's just that, unlike the Greeks, we have forgotten the metaporical origins. Just as a computer-literate society will gradually forget that terms like 'direct manupulation' are really metaphors. Chris %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% peter@crowdproud.co.uk wrote: > The original site has a attractive look which draws people into the site. From where, the street corner? You sir, are making the classic "let's mix-up our mediums" mistake. A Web page merely has to HOLD people, not DRAW. My own usability studies have shown that "Well organized information (usually as text), has more Holding power than pretty pictures. REBUS %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Reinier Post wrote: > catnip wrote: > > > > This sounds like a job for 'Super HTML Author', dressed like Superman > > Spiderman! > > > with a big 'HTML' on his/her chest; faster than a speeding HTML > > editor, able to crush badly designed web sites with a single sweep, > > saving the web for all...or something like that... ;-) > > Better: Spiderman has his own site, entitled > > The Cure for all Web Design Problems > > and a daily menu > > What are we having for dinner tonight? > > The background music would be optional, of course. Spiderman Validator(tm) error message begins with: 'My spidey senses are tingling.' catnip %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Chris Gray writes: > Phil Stripling writes: > > Chris Gray writes: > > > Phil Stripling writes: > > > > > > > > That gets into taste. Use marquees tastefully. > > > > > > Ditto for (100%) green text on a (100%) red background, Phil. :) > > > > (heheheh. Not on _my_ vt100 plain vanilla shell. :->) > > Hm, a new variation on an old theme. The usual story is: author develops > on fast system with huge 24-bit colour screen, and result it unusable > on average user's computer. The Stripling version: author uses lynx+vi, > never gets to see his own headache-inducing logo ... > emacs, Chris, not vi. Sheesh. :-) Phil Stripling ------------------- Phil Stripling writes: > Chris Gray writes: > > Christian Weisgerber writes: > > > Chris Gray wrote: > > > > > > > > Ditto for (100%) green text on a (100%) red background, Phil. :) > > > > > > 100% blue on 100% red (or vice versa) is more fun yet. > > > > Richtig. But I haven't caught Phil doing that yet. > > Oy vey ist mir. First the topic.police, now the taste.police. > Is there a PICS classification for colour combinations which Some Readers May Find Offensive? Chris Gray ------------------- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Liz Knuth writes: > Say, are you pulling a Bill Schlake on us? That's the term for "knowledge elicitation theough egregious trolling"? Chris Gray %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Aaron wrote: ++ Phil Stripling wrote: ++ > ++ >In the HTML authoring group, any time a question is posed in the form, "How ++ >do I force ... ?" the answer, you can't, not with HTML. ++ ++ Are CSS's not part of HTML? No, they aren't. Just like gif isn't part of HTML. Abigail %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Subject: Re: Web Design - $4.99 catnip wrote: >I wonder what kind of 'look' you get for 5 bucks. > Cheap. Sean Ahern ------------------- Hey, I can do better than that, here's a FREE web page: REBUS ------------------- REBUS wrote: >Hey, I can do better than that, here's a FREE web page: > > > > > > You left off the obligatory standard element tags. Hope This Helps. HEY, ISN'T THISS KEWL ! HEY LOOK DOODZ, I'M A WEBBMASTER Lon Stowell ------------------- Lon Stowell wrote: > HEY, ISN'T THISS KEWL ! > HEY LOOK DOODZ, I'M A WEBBMASTER You forgot: and catnip ------------------- catnip uttered: > YM :-) Tor Iver Wilhelmsen ------------------- Lon Stowell wrote: > HEY, ISN'T THISS KEWL ! > HEY LOOK DOODZ, I'M A WEBBMASTER > Sorry, but those additional "reelly kewl" features are extra. (ya no, the old bait and switch) REBUS ------------------- REBUS wrote: > Hey, I can do better than that, here's a FREE web page: > > > > > Hell, I wouldn't have just *given* that away ;-)) Ster ------------------- >On 10 May 1998 22:14:56 GMT, sien15@aol.com (Sien15) wrote: >>yo... get a website made for 5 bucks... email sien15@aol.com for more info. catnip wrote: >Let's hope he doesn't start franchising. :-P Probably just a shill for a consulting org who charges $300/hour to clean up after him after having trashed your business... However, being an enjoyer of oddball websites, I would say that for most of them, $4.99 would be egregious overbilling. Lon Stowell ------------------- >On 10 May 1998 22:14:56 GMT, sien15@aol.com (Sien15) wrote: > >>yo... get a website made for 5 bucks... email sien15@aol.com for more info. Frank H. Haddaway wrote: >My, my, my. What some folks can do with Front Page. Why don't we all try to help this budding entrepreneur by offering him tips. Say, how to avoid filling up his hard drive(s) with old html files. For example, you can drastically reduce the amount of wasted space on your hard drive if you use Front Page by simply deleting the directory [folder if you prefer] where Front Page likes to keep old crap: C:\webshare\wwwroot. Be sure to remove both "wwwroot" and "webshare" before you try to create any more web pages. Lon Stowell ------------------- Lon Stowell) wrote: > Why don't we all try to help this budding entrepreneur by > offering him tips. Say, how to avoid filling up his > hard drive(s) with old html files. > > For example, you can drastically reduce the amount of wasted > space on your hard drive if you use Front Page by simply > deleting the directory [folder if you prefer] where Front Page > likes to keep old crap: C:\webshare\wwwroot. Or you can save space on your hard disk by typing: format c: at a dos prompt. It may take a little longer to get your computer up and running after doing so, but you'll have plenty of free space. :) Zilbandy ------------------- Sien15 wrote: > > yo... get a website made for 5 bucks... email sien15@aol.com for more info. > > -Scott I hope there is a money back guarantee. Simon ------------------- Simon wrote: >I hope there is a money back guarantee. > Why of course there is. Just send him a $10 processeing/handling fee and a self addressed, stamped envelope, and he'll gladly return your original $5. Zilbandy ------------------- catnip wrote: >I wonder what kind of 'look' you get for 5 bucks. Gee, I'm not sure, maybe a $5 look?? :-) Gil Harvey ------------------- Sien15 wrote: >yo... get a website made for 5 bucks... email sien15@aol.com for more info. > I love the side to side scrolling on some of the pages. Yum! Yum! I guess I just got my money's worth!!!! ;-> GB ------------------- Tor Iver Wilhelmsen wrote: > YM :-) This works even better: Joo Hang Cha %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% It's been my experience that trying to fix a design by trying to specify it too precisely (pixel widths or whatever) is the sure way to get it to degrade badly when the browsing situation is outside of the range of browsers and browsing situations that it was tried out for. Trying to fix the resulting problems by specifying it even more closely can often make things even worse. I'd suggest, in general terms, to try letting the browser arrange your content as best it can. If you want to use tables for specifying layout (a procedure that is much disputed, but I'll stay clear of trying to give another lecture on that here), then try to arrange your materials in a balanced fashion so that the browsers produce an attractive result all by themselves, based on whatever window width they find. Using a width="nn%" on the table itself can be just fine: specifying appropriate cell padding etc. can be harmless, but beyond that, I would recommend letting the browser "size" the cells based on the material you have provided, and the font size and window width that each browser has available. And don't overlook the possibility of "floating" TABLEs or IMGs as insets in running text by giving them an ALIGN attribute of LEFT or RIGHT - a little-used but often useful technique. Apart from that, I'd suggest you might get better mileage out of this group if you'd be willing to show the URL of your draft page and ask for suggestions to alleviate whatever problem you're seeing. Describing the already half-formed page in general terms and then assuming that the solution is to "dictate" (or "force") yet another aspect of an already half-forced design is often a mistake, I would suggest. You might not like some of the answers you'd get - the rough and tumble of discussion in this group isn't for a delicate stomach - but I believe you'd get better results that way. (No promises though ;-) Alan J. Flavell %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Chris Gray wrote: > Alex Kamilewicz writes: > > Greg Berigan wrote: > > > Jenna Farnham wrote: > > > > > > > > Books don't use columns. > > > > > > Doesn't the "best selling book of all time" employ columns? > > > > Not in its original form. :) > > That would be the speech rendering, right? > > Later versions relied on scrolling. ;> It's kept its backward compatibility, though. (-: Alex Kamilewicz ----------------------------------- >> Doesn't the "best selling book of all time" employ columns? > >Not in its original form. :) *grin* It probably didn't have the title "best selling book of all time" when still in its original form, though, did it? :) Tim %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Tor Iver Wilhelmsen wrote: > David Priest wrote: > > > > "The Web isn't a newspaper." What a lame write-off *that* is. > > Howzabout you go do just a *little* poking about for some research on > > eyeballs, monitors, reading and that sort of thing. The web shares a > > helluva lot more with newspapers than it does books. > > Or rather, neither. Both newspapers and books have a "growing canvas" > horizontally (page after page), whereas browsers all assume a growing > canvas vertically. A vertically growing canvas isn't necessarily a foregone conclusion. One can create a horizontally arranged page without any vertical scrolling. Picture a site modeled on a museum with pictures on a wall that you scroll by horizontally like you were walking past them. Greg Berigan %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Chris Gray wrote: > Nic Hughes wrote: > > Chris Gray wrote: > > > Nic Hughes wrote: > > > > Alan J. Flavell wrote: > > > > > Jukka Korpela wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Could you cite a source where someone really says HTML is resolution > > > > > > independent? Someone _might_ have said so, > > > > > > > > > > Yes: I did. I think the basis on which I said it has been explored in > > > > > the discussion. > > > > > > > > > > I'd say it's a question of terminology, and where you think the borders > > > > > lie. There are quite enough real problems, so can we give it a rest with > > > > > counting angels on pinheads? I confess to having said that HTML itself > > > > > is pixel-independent, but I fully accept the other arguments. pax? > > > > > > > > Peace and love man :) > > > > > > Are you passing that stuff round, or do you intend to smoke it all yourself? > > > > Prefer the little cakes myself, just don't let the cat near them. > > She'll never be content with mere catnip again ... Ahem..."mere" catnip? catnip --------------------- Nic Hughes wrote: > Alan J. Flavell wrote: > > Nic Hughes wrote: > > > Prefer the little cakes myself, > > > > Hash Tea Malt Loaf? > > Washed down with special coffee :) > > > Hey, where'd the topic go? What were we supposed to be talking about anyway? [collapses in a fit of inexplicable, uncontrollable laughter] Sh*t who cares about screen resolution anyway. Where do you get this stuff? Chris Gray --------------------- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Chris Gray wrote: >So I would say: if it fits naturally into the main text, by all means have >an informatively-named link to the previous page (just like any other page >in fact); but it's almost never worth creating a "previous page" link per >se. I agree. To have a link is often useful (if the page is bookmarked, for instance) but the label 'previous' is confusing, and often, the result of confusion on the part of the author. It's like a road sign 'Previous Town ->'. They are rare for a reason. Reinier Post --------------------- So is 'Next Town ->'. ;> However the local tourist organisation does put up signposts to help you follow particular scenic routes. So you might have an arrow meaning "next windmill" ... the point is, people may like a suggestion where they should go next, but care little where you think they should have just been. Chris Gray --------------------- Exactly. Signs meaning 'next windmill' are much appreciated, but they carry different labels. What I usually see when scenic routes are signposted, is two signs: 'Ye Olde Burnethe-Downe Wind-Mille ->' 'Ebro-Thames-Wisla scenic footpath ->' This 'path-independent' indication produces exactly the required result: the user will know to interpret this as 'next windmill' when is following the Ebro-Thames-Wisla scenic footpath, and won't be disoriented otherwise. I see little reason not to apply the same principle to the names of hyperlinks on the Web. Reinier Post --------------------- Chris Gray wrote: > So is 'Next Town ->'. ;> I disagree somewhat. It's often useful to know where the prerequisite material can be found - it's not always explicitly hyperlinked when, say, a printed book is published on the Web. That's not to say I feel I should have been there first, though. For material which is ordered but unrelated (e.g. a journey in the Big Room - keeping the analogy close), then being able to traverse the sequence in either direction, irrespective of entry point, is a major win. Toby Speight --------------------- Reinier Post wrote > 'Ye Olde Burnethe-Downe Wind-Mille ->' > 'Ebro-Thames-Wisla scenic footpath ->' A lot of paths of this nature are signed in both directions: Castle Foo (Foobar path) ==> <== Bar House (Foobar path) The HTML equivalent is > > (perhaps also with REV="previous" and REL="previous", respectively). Toby Speight --------------------- Toby.Speight@digitivity.com wrote: > I disagree somewhat. It's often useful to know where the prerequisite > material can be found Of course, but this is not what "Back" conventionally means on the WWW. "Back" is usually understood to refer to the last entry on the reader's history stack. A reference to the page that (in the author's opinion) logically precedes the current one is probably best categorised as "Previous". Semantically it's true that neither term is unambiguous, but somehow the convention seems to have grown on the WWW, and it would be perverse to try to break it, now that it's so widely understood. Alan J. Flavell --------------------- Alan J. Flavell writes: > > "Back" is usually understood to refer to the last entry on the reader's > history stack... I think you'll find that "Back" and "Previous" are older than the WWW. Hypertext existed before 1991, you know. Chris Gray --------------------- > I think you'll find that "Back" and "Previous" are older than the WWW. > Hypertext existed before 1991, you know. I'm sure you're right; but the usage on the WWW could easily have gone a different way. "[X] Return Back to Galactic Headquarters" Alan J. Flavell --------------------- > > I'm sure you're right; but the usage on the WWW could easily have gone > a different way. Such as, let me guess: right down the drain? > "[X] Return Back to Galactic Headquarters" Error: missing "click here" detected. Chris Gray --------------------- > > "[X] Return Back to Galactic Headquarters" > > Error: missing "click here" detected. Sorry, I think you mean: [X] Click Here to Return Back to small Galactic Headquarters Icon spacer gif Alan J. Flavell --------------------- Toby.Speight@digitivity.com writes: > A lot of paths of this nature are signed in both directions: > > Castle Foo (Foobar path) ==> > <== Bar House (Foobar path) > > The HTML equivalent is > > > > > > > (perhaps also with REV="previous" and REL="previous", respectively). I'm all in favour of copious LINKs in the HEAD; but when it comes to A HREFs in the BODY I'm not so sure that more is always better. And if you're going to be selective then I would say that Up, ToC and Next (where defined) should be assigned a very high utility value, whereas Prev is a bit ho-hum: probably below Search and Index. Chris Gray %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% roconnor@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca (Russell Steven Shawn O'Connor) wrote: >In article <6ivfou$10m$2@client3.news.psi.net>, >Abigail wrote: >> >>"Hierarchy" and "web" don't go well together. > >I disagree. I feel a hierarchy is a subset of web, just like tree is a >subset of graphs. Hierarchys fit well into the web. Moreover, hierarchies are optimal webs, in the sense that they minimize the number of steps between the pages. -- Reinier ------------------ : Moreover, hierarchies are optimal webs, in the sense that they minimize : the number of steps between the pages. Surely from that POV a hypercube would be better? -- Chris Gray ------------------ ++ Moreover, hierarchies are optimal webs, in the sense that they minimize ++ the number of steps between the pages. Wrong. In a hierarchie with one root, and all the other pages linked to the root, the diameter of your topology is 2. In a web with every page linked to every other page, the diameter is 1. Abigail ------------------ > >In a web with every page linked to every other page, the diameter is 1. Either I haven't had enough tea yet this morning, or I've been magically transported to another newsgroup. catnip *twirls blonde hair* ------------------ > Either I haven't had enough tea yet this morning, or I've been > magically transported to another newsgroup. Skip the tea and try one of Nic's magic cookies. Then everything will seem to make sense again. Close your eyes and imagine the room is a Klein bottle, so you're inside and outside at the same time. -- Chris Gray ------------------ ------------------ ... So my site is both nonlinear and hierarchical depending upon the reader's path. And it can be linear if a reader chooses to follow those links in the navigation bar. (Just wear dark glasses for the logo.) -- Phil Stripling http://www.cieux.com/ ------------------ Phil Stripling writes: > (Just wear dark glasses for the logo.) Of course that was my mistake. Next time I go there I'll wear dark glasses - and nothing else. :) Oh, and borrow a sunlamp. -- Chris Gray ------------------ > Of course that was my mistake. Next time I go there I'll wear dark glasses > and nothing else. :) Oh, and borrow a sunlamp. You'll have catnip on your doorstep before you know it, Mr Web God (which I'll bet is a phrase she has pointed in your direction already). celigne@celigne.co.uk ------------------ >You'll have catnip on your doorstep before you know it, Mr Web God (which >I'll bet is a phrase she has pointed in your direction already). You know me well. ;-) Of course, I mean 'Web God' in the most flattering way when it comes to Chris. catnip %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Greg Berigan wrote: >>the seeking of order in >>information in a hierarchichal fashion is ingrained in the human >>psyche. This is a most interesting question, and I think important too. I think very much the same way you do, although at times I feel it's just my way of seeing things. (I remember too well how I gave a speech, a few years ago, about online information systems. I strongly emphasized that Gopher, the hierarchical system, is the way to go, although some new systems called "hypertext" might be interesting in the far future in special cases.) My conjecture is: A simple hierarchical view should be offered at least as an alternative for any large site. (Let's define "large" roughly as anything with more than a dozen or so relatively short pages.) Moreover, the hierarchy should be constructed, except for special cases, according to "the rule of seven": there should be at most seven components at each level of the hierarchy. I'd say the rule of seven is also "ingrained in the human psyche". It can also be applied to the major _ingredients_ of a Web page: a page should have at most seven essentially different components such as images (or collections of images clearly belonging together), chunks of texts, link lists, etc. Anything beyond that will probably confuse the user and force (!) her or him to try to _find_ some simple structure (with at most seven components) on the page, i.e. mentally try to restructure the content (very often in vain; luckily there is the back button - is this the reason why authors so often ask how to disable it?). Jukka Korpela %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Visit the HTML Writers Guild Web site at http://www.hwg.org/; you'll find sample contracts along with other useful information for Web professionals. Brian Pomeroy %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% A member of a local group of web developers was handed a letter from his client's lawyer asking for a return of the money they paid for developing a portion of his web site, the reason: the pages he created looked like crap on Netscape 3.0 browsers. In the contract he signed (without reading I bet) states something like "worked to be performed in accordance with standard professional practices". The lawyer who was relating this little experience agreed that having a page pass through a "validator" would go a long way in getting this type of suit dismissed. REBUS %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > BTW, what does the HREF stand for? HREF == hyperlink reference %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > BTW, what does the HREF stand for? HREF == hyperlink reference %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Hi Real life is complicated. If you wants to promote learning, you should not make a good user interface !!. Try to have a look at some of Golightly's publications at http://www.psyc.nott.ac.uk/~dag/dag_txt.htm#pubpap. Here you can read that "The counterintuitive finding is that less easy to use interfaces can be beneficial to the domain learning process." Dave Smith wrote: I am interested in why well designed interfaces can allow a package (designed to teach a specific subject) to be effective. -- Jens Peter Hansen %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Infernosoft (http://www.best.com/~mroeder/humor/infernosoft) will soon be introducing a 104-button mouse (Pat. Pend.). We're still working on the form factor because of physical user-interface issues. For some reason, people's fingers are too stubby, so we're forced to make the mouse about 18" wide and 8" deep, with all the buttons in six rows. (The idea that we should eliminate the keyboard and arrange the mouse butons in the standard QWERTY layout is being discussed at length.) The mouse requires a much larger mouse pad, so we're lining up doormat manufacturers to see if they can modify their products. And since the prototypes are heavy, we're considering motor-driven assisted mouse movement. Another posibility is to eliminate the moving mouse altogether and just move the cursor around with the arrow keys. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% I spent a number of years as an in-house computer consultant at a major corporate research center where literally everyone spent a fair share of their day using a computer keyboard. I'll guess that probably not more than one out of five persons there could properly touch type. Most were, at best, two fingered hunt'n'peckers. Nothing was more exhasperating than to have someone trying to show you the specifics of a problem they were having by poking at the keyboard at a rate that probably didn't exceed 20 characters a minute. Yet, when typing (er, pardon me, keyboarding) courses were offered these same people were always "too busy" to take the time. One can only speculate on the increase in productivity that would be realized if only those courses were taken. -- James L. Ryan %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% "For every complex problem there is a solution that is concise, clear, simple, and wrong." (H. L. Mencken) %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Jakob Nielsen has a new AlertBox on designing webpage templates, that's about the cleverest piece of research I've ever seen. He offers two page-designs with unreadable text, and asks you to identify the following content-categories based on layout alone: Main content selections for this page Page title Person responsible for this page Intranet-wide navigation (e.g., intranet home, search) Last updated date Intranet identifier/logo Site navigation Confidentiality/security (e.g, Public, Confidential, etc.) Site news items Jorn Barger %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% "As much as we all may be able to agree on what does constitute "good debating technique", there will always be those who think that logic is what your computer spits out, fallacies are male genitalia, and cites are those things you visit on the WWW." -catnip, ciwa, March '98 %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Jan Roland Eriksson wrote: > > It may not be the most "kosher" use of TITLE attribute but still less > potentially harmful than presenting the ALT attribute value. > Something like this... > "Kosher"?? When did HTML become a religion, and how come I missed the party? > WIDTH=xx HEIGHT=yy > ALT="some text to blend into non graphical presentations" > TITLE="some text to be presented as a tool tip"> > I'd say that most things you will actually want to come up on the tool-tip will be perfectly acceptable titles (and visa-versa) - well apart from "Don't point your mouse at me!" :) Nic Hughes ----------------- Jukka Korpela wrote: > Jan Roland Eriksson wrote: > > "Kosher"?? When did HTML become a religion, and how come I missed the > > party? > >You weren't with us in the Mosaic age? (Sorry, I couldn't resist.) Weren't most of the glacial till formations deposited then ? mr. freedom X %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Applying computer technology is a matter of finding the right wrench to pound in the correct screw. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% On Thu, 21 May 1998, Bia wrote: > And will a browser default to > times new roman when it doesn't find the font that is suggested? A colleague recently showed me a spoof picture of a Windows CD bearing the substitute legend "World Domination 99". I'm beginning to wonder whether it's already happened... -- Alan J. Flavell "where had you hoped to go today?" %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% In article <3564802C.5ACA24B3@newbridge.com>, Gil Hicks wrote: >I am looking for a good editor for editing gif, jpeg etc. files that can >be easily downloaded without major complications. This editor will be >used exclusively on a UNIX station so it imperative that it functions >well in this environment. Try www.gimp.org XV is ok, but its no gimp. Lon Stowell %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Windows is the operating system for the non-computer user. Sabazio %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% In another life, I helped design the interface to an integrated suite of office products (which you have never heard of...) I took my beta to a number of trade shows and asked people to "play around" with it and tell me what they thought. I was OK for the under 45 group but not a winner with the over 45s. Why? Subsequent discussions revealed that I had the menu bar at the top of the screen. The over 45s were much more likely to be wearing bi-focals. The position of the menu bar was - literally - a pain in the neck for them! (45 was an arbitrary age demarkation point on my survey sheets) Finally, some site designers just don't have a clue when it comes to basic human psychology. I recently viewed a site that was trying to sell a designer's skills as a web developer. The basic color scheme was red and black. Day 1 training in pre-sales is that you *never* use red when describing yourself - that's the color of the competition. Why? Because we subconsciously associate red with 'bad'. David Haynes %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% To dictate that only "HTML" programmers can write web pages seems to be a bit ego-centric. This is like saying that only someone with an English Literature degree should write correspondence, or only someone with A+ certification should be allowed to install a new application on your computer. Sabazio %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Toyin Akinmusuru wrote... >Does anyone know how people set up their adbanners to display a random >impression? Nope, they *always* give a bad impression. -- George Lund %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Lusers doing web development in Word. Man, that's like trying to cook eggs in a blast furnace. Brian Knotts ---------------------- > >Lusers doing web development in Word. Man, that's like trying to cook > >eggs in a blast furnace. (Or make steel on a gas stove, maybe...) Alan J. Flavell %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Ben wrote: > Well ... Jim .... A 6 year old friend of mine can design a website like > your DeF. Kelly (bones@enterprise.gov) wrote: > Dammit, Jim, I'm a _doctor_, not a six-year-old. -- Phil Stripling %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Vince wrote: >I have seen some pages that automatically open a new browser window when you >click on a link. How do you do this? Try this syntax for the tag: Click Here Hywel Jenkins %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% There is a PERL script called the _Demoroniser_ at which is reputed to fix many of the liberties taken by MS's HTML generation. The introduction by the author is amusing in a disturbing way (and considering that the perversion of standards seems to be the MS way, is timely although the script is not new). The script is in the public domain. The balance of the site has its moments as well. I. Campbell %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% On 25 May 1998 13:43:07 +0200, Chris Gray wrote: >catnip8@geocities.com (catnip) writes: > >> There's an alt.oblivion? *jots that down* > >But don't ever subscribe to it, 'cos once you do there's no way to get out. Too late! catnip Hi Chris! %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% On Sun, 24 May 1998 14:53:32 GMT, comments@hobsonsquare.com (William G. Schlake) uttered: >Speaking of gorillas...someone throw Alan and the boys another bunch >of bananas, they're starting to grunt and act like a mob of know it >all monkeys going ape again. I wonder if one could have your posts declared as reference implementations of "content-free articles". That way you can at least have the illusion of having contributed anything to the world. Tor Iver Wilhelmsen %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% As you might have noticed, the FAQ was posted again today. This is due to the fact that it has - today - been approved for posting to the news.answers and comp.answers groups. From now on the FAQ will, subsequently, be archived on rtfm.mit.edu, and x-posted to the abovementioned *.answers groups as well as CIWAH. Congratulations, CIWAH. -- Tina Holmboe %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% On 1 Jun 1998 18:16:37 GMT, abigail@fnx.com (Abigail) wrote: >KOJI (kgeorge@hi-ho.ne.jp) wrote on MDCCXXXIII September MCMXCIII in >: >++ How could I make my HP lighter? > >You could remove its CD-ROM. or if it's a printer, take out the toner cartridge. > William G. Schlake %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Rumor has it that "Branden" wrote something to the effect of: >I understand this is really a general web site authoring question (not so >much html), but I'm not sure where else to go with it and you guys seem to >come up with some good answers.... > >How would I go about setting up a custom page so that when a user goes to a >non-existent URL within my domain they would get my custom error page rather >than the *404 File Not Found Error*? I don't suppose I could use HTML in >any way since they would never even get that far... Is this strictly a >server function? How do you all specify a default page for just such >occasions? If you are on a UNIX server and can use .htaccess, do this: 1) create a file in your root called ".htaccess" (without the quotes) 2) in that file, place the line: "ErrorDocument 404 /badurl.html" (again, without the quotes) 3) then create badurl.html to be whatever you would like for the file not found page. Save badurl.html in your root. Hope that helps --Mark ---------------------------- Mark Badolato %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% On Tue, 02 Jun 1998 14:03:39 GMT, Dean Craven wrote: >Please try our screen capture tool "SnagIt". It can easily grab entire >web pages exactly as they appear on your screen to an image file. >SnagIt's "AutoScroll" feature lets you capture long vertically scrolling >web pages that span multiple screens with one key stroke. An eval >version of SnagIt is available at http://www.techsmith.com. Jude's Rule: Win95 & NT. catnip (where *is* Jude??) %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% On Sat, 30 May 1998 lisa_barry@yahoo.com wrote: > I'd like to avoid the hassles and portability problems associated with > server-side image maps and use only client-side maps on a site. I'd say you are over-stating the portability problems. If you use a decent imagemapping tool, it'll create server-side maps for you in an appropriate form for pretty much any of the servers you are going to meet (there are basically three formats in use, CERN, NCSA, and Apache's extended version of NCSA; if you don't want to use the extensions, that makes just two). You might have to adjust the URL for the server-side map as you move from one server to another, it's true. > From what I understand, the main disadvantage to this is that not all browsers > support client-side image maps. However, pretty much any recent browser is going to support client-side imagemaps to some extent. Some popular ones are missing some very useful functionality, but you can work-around that (e.g instead of using an external imagemap document, you use server-side include to suck it into each document that needs it). > Are we talking ancient history here Pretty much, I'd say. So it's up to you whether you care or not. If you have some alternative means of navigation then it's probably fine anyway. Read the Spyglass RFC (rfc1980) for an intelligent discussion of some fallback options - a server-side imagamap is only one of the possibilities discussed there. Alan J. Flavell %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ... WinErr 00C: Memory hog error - More Ram needed. More! More! More! %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Dennis R. Metzcher wrote in message <3575bade.0@news11.kcdata.com>... >The best for you seems to be FrontPage 98! Why is he Your enemy? I would give FrontPage only my worst enemy as a gift ;-) Complete loss of control over code. Makes pages up to 80% longer. Mosl Roland %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, Joseph Zorzin wrote: > What I'm confused about is- just what is a CGI script? The classic tutorial is at http://hoohoo.ncsa.uiuc.edu The usenet group is comp.infosystems.www.authoring.cgi > Is it a readable > script or a compiled program? Er, "yes". Any language may be used that supports the specified proramming interface. Compiled or interpreted. It's just a shorthand to refer to them all as "CGI scripts". > I'm a "C" programmer so I understand > programming and compilation. If I find one of these CGI scripts, will it > be easy to modify it? If you're a programmer, "yes". It's just a program, that runs on the server platform and is conformant to the CGI programming interface specification. But visit the tutorial. It's impractical to try to answer your further detailed questions until you have understood that. And this is the wrong place for it anyhow. Alan J. Flavell %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% I am absolutely amazed that anyone even notices when the URL gets a / at the end. Does anal retentive have a hyphen? Dee Jay Gordon -------------------------- > Does anal retentive have a hyphen? This is off-topic for this newsgroup. Consult Fowler's _Modern English Usage_, where the author explains how 'superfluous hair-remover' can only mean a hair-remover that nobody wants. Chris Gray -------------------------- > 'superfluous hair-remover' can only > mean a hair-remover that nobody wants. Something like an ex-Prime Minister, then? Alan J. Flavell %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Warren Steel wrote: > Jedi Master Yoda wrote: > > wrote: > > >I was hoping for some response as to the pros and cons of using frames. If you > > >have an opinion on the subject pls. respond so that we might build up a good > > >resource for everyone to review before finalising their sites. > > >Thanks! > > > > That's a great idea. I've not seen frames discussed here before. Maybe if > > we have a really good discussion about it now, in years to come people > > will be able to use DejaNews to read about it, instead of starting the > > debate all over again from scratch. > > I suggest that jgsca, who actually posted his or her > message via dejanews, might better have used dejanews to > retrieve the hundreds of messages that have already been > posted on this very topic in the last 2-3 years. Why do > you think people will use dejanews to read the current > discussion, when they decline to use it to read all the > past discussions? Er, indeed. JM "What, dejanews is filtering out sarcasm now?" Y %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Serge Pilon (pilon.serge@hydro.qc.ca) wrote on MDCCXXXVIII September MCMXCIII in : ++ Hi everybody, ++ ++ I'm looking for an ASCII editor where I can replace a character string ++ by another on many files, let's say, all the files in a directory. ++ ++ For example, I would like to replace the occurrence "this.html" by ++ "that.html" globally or individually on many files. perl -i -wpe 's/this\.html/that.html/g' *.html Abigail %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Subject: Re: WHAT IS THE BEST way to advertise my WEB SITE FOR FREE ? 1. Go to www.FreePromote.com. It'll take about 20 minutes to register with about 30 engines. 2. Go to www.addme.com and add yourself to about 30+ engines (some dups from above). 3. Go to www.yahoo.com and add yourself manually. This is the only one I would recommend doing manually - it's hit heavily. 4. Go to www.Loracom.com and add a cool applet to get people talking about your site. :) Carol@Loracom.com %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Dave wrote: >The only good thing I have to say is that at least you fucked everything up >at once, instead of dragging it out over a series of clients. Quote of the week surely. Jedi Master Yoda %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Chris Gray wrote: > catnip writes: > > Chris Gray wrote: > > > > > >Someone remind me what this thread is supposed to be about. > > > > The mating habits of llamas, I believe. > > Which explains the hump on the camel, > And the sphynx's inscrutable smile. I think the sphinx was on catnip, but that's just *my* opinion... catnip %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Phil Stripling wrote: > Stewart Dean writes: > > Abigail wrote: > > > Stewart Dean wrote: > > > > > > > > HTML can be a very good layout tool when used with a good knowledge of > > > > the language. > > > > > > Even with minor knowledge of the language you would know you cannot > > > do layout with HTML. > > > > And you won't get wet if you dance naked in the rain. > > Maybe you have non wet rain where you come from but from my experience > > you end up getting wet. > >So, uh, Stewart, where is it that you get your experience dancing naked in >the rain? :-> Urm, er, we where all young once : ) Stewart Dean %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% harrow@my-dejanews.com wrote: > Can someone please tell me where to find out how to get icons to appear on a > web page (folder, text icon etc.) when a directory listing is performed and > only display specific details about the files present in the directory. This is a server function. Most web servers have a repertory of icons that are displayed in directory listings according to their file type. This can be controlled by the server configuration, along with the information displayed in the listing, such as size, date, description, etc. On some servers, you may be able to modify this for your own web directories, e.g. in Apache via .htaccess You may set such directives as AddIcon /icons/image1.gif .xbm IndexOptions FancyIndexing SuppressLastModified AddDescription "Empire State Building" empire.jpg You may also supply a custom header or footer in HTML. See your server docs for details. Since this is not an HTML issue, further questions should be taken to comp.infosystems.www.servers.unix or the other platform- specific servers newsgroup. -- Warren Steel %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Andreas Prilop wrote: > Jukka Korpela wrote: > > >The protocol-correct way is that the _server_ sends a real HTTP header > >specifying the encoding. > > Of course you are right. > But how many people have control over these server settings? Many more have it than realise it. Some of them have it in spite of the fact that their server admins say they don't know about it. I've lost count of the number of people who've tried my suggestion to put an AddType directive into their .htaccess file and replied that it worked. Of course, it isn't guaranteed - the server admin _could_ configure it off. And yes, this isn't an HTML issue, it's a server issue (everybody runs Apache, after all - right? ;-), but my excuse is that I'm answering it where it gets asked anyway. Alan J. Flavell %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Alan J. Flavell wrote: ++ ++ What with their browsers already being bloated to many megabytes, it'd ++ hardly make much difference to add a few kbytes of tables listing all of ++ the defined entity names, even those that don't yet appear in HTML ++ specs, no? It's NIHS - Not Invented Here Syndrome. Abigail %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% "Sean's working" wrote: >Hi All, > Please visit www.real-mccoys.com/mixman ......Submit your URL >for The Real Clean Site Award and the Prozac's Real PHAT SITE Award. > >You may also submit any questions in reguard to HTML problems or question in >the Q&A section.... I wonder how many other medications have their own homepage. Valium - takes a loooong time to load, but who cares? Morphine - has 20 frames, lots of Java & Javascript & huge animated graphics, but you'll feel no pain as you cruise through. Amphetamines - loads so fast that you'll miss it if you blink. Reloads over & over at warp speed. Nicotine Patch Page - if you leave, you go through withdrawal and must visit several times a day to get your fix. Viagra - it's *always* up no matter what. :-P catnip ------------------------------------- (catnip) wrote: > I wonder how many other medications have their own homepage. > Viagra - it's *always* up no matter what. And the URL would of course be "http://www.viagra.org/" (as opposed to viagra.com, etc.) Joey M. Jackson %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% DJB (djb@16straight.com) wrote: : > >I want to let everybody who visits my web site view it how they : > >want to: their favorite background color, font color, size and : > >face, margins, and so on. But HOW DO I DO THIS??? : Easy! : Don't set parameters within your declaration, and : people with recent browsers will be able to specify : whatever background color, font color, size and face they : like best. (People using LYNX can probably specify those : parameters in their xterm or terminal program.) Though,as been pointed out, hardly anybody does. The trouble is it's tough to differentiate sites that look so bare because they are poorly kept and have little content, and sites that may be bursting with wonderful content but are run by hardcore "pure" HTML fans. In my experience, barebones sites are usually the former, except in a few technical fields. Compromise and common sense are good watchwords. -- Kirk Israel %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Chris Gray wrote: > > > Each fancification poses a challenge for the designer: can I make this > more fun for at least some users without making it decidedly un-fun for > many others? .....cut....... , it doesn't actually follow that every addition > to fancy actually *detracts* from use.Some things are actually both "fun" > and useful, believe it or not. > Chris (what about ) Gray I agree Chris. I think this approach challenges the _content_ of a site or page. If it is "fun" or useful content to start with, then it can be enhanced to make it more pleasureable to _some_ readers while remaining useful and fun those not able to experience the enhancements. The key is that each enhancement - addition of colours, images, formatting, white space - must not detract from the presentation of the raw content, which is what it's all about Alfie. You can dress up garbage, but all you get is dressed-up garbage. If your page is not interesting with black text on a grey background, well then...... Mike Lindsay %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% (somebody) wrote: > "HTML can be a very good layout tool when used with a good knowledge of > the language." You can believe that HTML is a good layout tool, just like some people believe the US is a democratic government. REBUS %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% William G. Schlake wrote: > Alan, you're the kind of individual who would argue with the wording > of the Ten Commandments, tell God what's wrong with heaven while he > argues creation wasn't up to specs as he offers to sit on the throne > so God can have a rest. You mean you didn't respond to Gods post and complain that she's being a Purist. REBUS %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% I would think the important thing is the distinction between what is intended to be a "professional site" and what is intended to be an "amatuer site". It is a matter of context. On the one hand, if you charge a client to develop for them and/or the site is intended to generate value then there are evolving "do's and don'ts" that optimize the desired outcome. At that point, it is no longer personal. The measuring tool is to ask is it as effective as it can be. This would be a "professional site". If the goal is to get some personal feeling, or experiment with HTML, or "graffiti for the world". And, answers to questions like, "why did you do it like that?", tend to be, "Because I like it! It's cool!". Then, this would indicate an "amatuer site". Both are valid use of the medium. To complain about one not being the other is like complaining that the Teletubbies are a crappy version of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. I guess the confusion comes in when an amatuer that is experimenting makes their site seem to be offering professional services (my nephew is currently doing this :-). Bryce Doster %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > What exactly is CSS? Can i see an example of a site that uses it? Is > there an FAQ on it? Why should i use it? > thanx in advance for your help.. > --jcl CSS stands for Cascading Style Sheets. Style sheets let you define properties for tags that can be used universally throughout your site. A better description and a really good tutorial can be found off c|net's builder.com, at http://builder.cnet.com/Authoring/CSS/ Keep in mind that CSS only works in 4.0 browsers. "i am a spy. fear me." ------------------------------------------ jordan@castle.net (JCL) writes: > > Okay, Let start this by me asking everyone not to yell at me. > Hi, Jordan --- forget it :-> You get yelled at for asking not to be yelled at. > What exactly is CSS? Can i see an example of a site that uses it? Is > there an FAQ on it? Why should i use it? There is a newsgroup devoted to Cascading Style Sheets, and it has a FAQ, and there is a very nice Web site devoted to examples of sites that use CSS. Hope this helps. Oh! Take a look at http://home.att.net/%7esjacct/ for pointers to tons of well done CSS sites, and see if your ISP carries comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets which is the stylesheets newsgroup. Hope this helps. -- Phil Stripling %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% the CGI FAQ http://www.htmlhelp.com/faq/cgifaq.html %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% On 09 Jun 1998 10:23:06 +0200, Chris Gray wrote: >catnip8@geocities.com (catnip) writes: > >> On 08 Jun 1998 17:44:46 +0200, Chris Gray >> wrote: >> >> >Someone remind me what this thread is supposed to be about. >> >> The mating habits of llamas, I believe. > >Which explains the hump on the camel, >And the sphynx's inscrutable smile. I think the sphinx was on catnip, but that's just *my* opinion... catnip %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Ally Akbarzadeh wrote: > I need help with a certain form. I was wondering if anyone new of a way to > have 2 'submit' buttons at the bottom of a page, each using the data from > the same form, but each executing a different CGI script with it. A form can only have one ACTION, however that CGI program can call different routines depending on which submit button was pushed. -- Darin McGrew %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Student wrote: > I'm curious about the topic of FRAMES. What do people think about > them? I keep seeing comments like "most people hate frames" and others > like "that was not a proper use of frames." > So when is is appropriate to use frames? What would be an example of a > proper use of frames vs. not using frames? > Just looking for some insite as I was going to use frames in a site I'm > creating, but will all the hatred of them I'm reconsidering. It would > consist of one frame on the left being the navigation and the other frame > being were all other info is loaded into. Is this not a proper use of > frames? A good question. Proper or not, it's a rather common use of frames. Here's my take on it. When you enter the site by URL, you see a menu on the left and the main content of the first page on the right. Then you begin to scroll the right-hand frame. The menu still appears on the left, so you're wasting all that space on the left, requiring much more scrolling of the right frame. Then you choose another menu item on the left, and something new loads into the right frame. Again, you're wasting all that left-hand space, which limits the amount of real content you can see on the right, and increases the scrolling. This is especially pronounced on smaller displays. Now try to bookmark the right-hand content. Yes, some browsers can bookmark a single frame, but this will be without the menu, so that those who return to that URL will have no frameset, and no navigation menus. You could correct this problem of course by placing navigation menus at the top and/or bottom of each document loaded in the right frame. But then the menu frame is redundant and unnecessary, so why waste the space? Most users in a non-framed site will look for navigational aids at the top or bottom of the file (crtl-Home and ctrl-End on many systems) In other words, why should I, the user, perpetually give up that screen space for navigational tools that I can already get to any time I want? And why should _you_ give up the useful ability to refer to any page of content by its unique URL? And this, so far, is a user with frames enabled. What about the non-frame browser, or the browser with frames disabled? That's what the NOFRAMES element is for, of course. You may place a site menu, with links to the real content pages, or _both_ the menu and the first content page, in the NOFRAMES element of the FRAMESET. Then, of course, you'll have to have separate versions. But then the subsequent content pages will seem bare and empty, without navigation aids other than the back button. So you're back where you started. If you're using frames for your own convenience, you might as well use server-side includes, or boilerplate text, for your navigational tools, and do without the FRAMES entirely. Then I can devote my entire screen to your artwork or other content, without scrolling, and we'll all be happy. Warren Steel %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% On Wed, 10 Jun 1998, Andreas Prilop wrote: > In article , > Jukka Korpela wrote: > > >The protocol-correct way is that the _server_ sends a real HTTP header > >specifying the encoding. > > Of course you are right. > But how many people have control over these server settings? Many more have it than realise it. Some of them have it in spite of the fact that their server admins say they don't know about it. I've lost count of the number of people who've tried my suggestion to put an AddType directive into their .htaccess file and replied that it worked. Of course, it isn't guaranteed - the server admin _could_ configure it off. And yes, this isn't an HTML issue, it's a server issue (everybody runs Apache, after all - right? ;-), but my excuse is that I'm answering it where it gets asked anyway. Alan J. Flavell %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Dave Nalle (graball@ccsi.com) wrote on MDCCL September MCMXCIII in : ++ One of the biggest problems web designers encounter is the lack of any ++ standard fonts which they can be sure their users have. One of the biggest problem users encounter are clueless people calling themselves "web designers" without knowing the web. Abigail %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Yep - Beta usually means: "You beta not do it!" David Wier %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Tina Marie Holmboe's sig: -- "DTD did the job on me, now I am a real sickie. Guess I gotta break the news, that I got no site to loose. All the geeks are in love with me, I'm a twenty-something lobotomy... " - with apologies to 'The Ramones'. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Jukka Korpela wrote: > Or consider a purely auditive mode of browsing - well, perhaps with > some olfactory ingredients if you like - exercised just because one > wants to use one's eyes for something else than looking at Web pages. > For instance, doing some Web searches while driving, or while cooking, > or while lying on a beach. Man, you just awakened a desire in me for an audio headset browser with microphone pickup, and I have capability of sight. Even if I was sitting in front of a computer screen. Greg Berigan -------------------------------- Maybe HTML 5.0 will let us embed smells. I can think of some that would really let you get the flavor of the site. Jeff Thies -------------------------------- Yes, but you have to weigh the benefits against the possible abuse of any new tag. Teenage boys will create homepages with really FUN smells, I'm sure. And overly romantic women will no doubt think they're doing us a favor by making ou rcomputer smell like gallons of potpourri. I give an "embed smell" tag two nostrils down. Stacey Capps %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > > Is there a utility that would have the facility of being able to be pointed > > at a large number of sequentially named html files in the same directory, > > and automatically go thru them and replace the same entry in each page/file > > with a new entry (the same in each)? > > Thanks for any help. know any unix? [myprompt]% man awk "i am a spy. fear me." ------------------ On 17 Jun 1998 19:59:29 -0700, Jo Meder uttered: >sed (Try "man sed") Or, if you want to be fancy about it, "perl -pi". :-) Tor Iver Wilhelmsen %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% -- WAR IS PEACE. toriw@online.no FREEDOM IS SLAVERY. http://www.pvv.org/%7etoriver/ IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH. HTML IS LAYOUT. - With excuses to George Orwell (RIP) %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Subject: Javascript or DHTML Question Can it write something to say "Hey that's a nice *RED* shirt you got there!" *red* being the colour of their shirt. Ripley ------------------------------- Well I'd recommend you try the hacker technique of social engineering, in order to dupe the unsuspecting surfer into wearing a red shirt, before they access your page. dayak %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% On 18 Jun 1998 09:43:40 +0200, Jon Haugsand wrote: >Yes, I know designers think so, but the users don't. By the way, >consider the situation where I build a home page for a certain topic. >Some of my pointers point directly into a framed site where there are >interesting documents. I do _not_ want to point to initial framesets >and tell the users "and then go to chapter 12". This is awkward. I >point directly to the document, and then I have two problems. One is >to capture the correct URI for me to put in my page. I have a use of frames that I *think* doesn't have this problem. In an *experimental* version of my site, I use frames for a multi-page index, with the alphabet in one frames, and the index entries for the currently selected letter in the other. The actual *content* pages are displayed outside of frames - the frames are used *only* for the index. (Besides, the content pages can also be accessed through the classification section, which is non-frame). [The index has to be multipage, as it contains some 700-800 entries]. What do you think? The actual interesting pages have their own URL, and can be accessed directly without any problem. Stanley Friesen ------------------------------------ Jon Haugsand wrote: >* Stanley Friesen >| I have a use of frames that I *think* doesn't have this problem. >| >| In an *experimental* version of my site, I use frames for a >| multi-page index... > >Difficult to say without a pointer. > It is: http://www.crl.com/~sarima/dinosaurs/genera/index_frm.html [I hope I have all of the Netscape bugs ironed out]. Stanley Friesen %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Fred Goodwin, CMA wrote: : No -- I think the *real* problem is with the USENET gurus who, rather than : simply ignoring a repeat request, would prefer to belittle a person for simply : making such a request. A lack of basic etiquette, if you will (never mind : netiquette). I have been following this group for almost three years, and I can't remember a time when I've seen someone "belittled" or "insulted" for making such a request. I have, of course, seen experienced regulars here point people who make such requests to authoritative sources rather than personally answering the question, but I don't see that as condescending or insulting. Instead I see it as helpful, and humble ("I might get this wrong, so why not check a verified source"). No, the regulars here really don't have a problem with what newbies don't know. What they do have a problem with what some not-so-newbies "know" that ain't so. People *do* get belittled here when they offer incorrect or seriously incomplete "street knowledge" that purports to be about HTML. And that's as it should be. "You can get a subject in your email by sticking ?subject at the end of the address" is epistemologically in the same category as "the girl can't get pregnant if she's on top." That category is called "misleading and dangerous advice." It's advice that will sometimes work by accident in some special circumstances, but that will blow up in other circumstances that don't differ by much (and I can easily imagine some circumstances where a commercial organization that randomly ignores e-mails could incur a financial loss comparable to 18 years of child-support payments). "I put ?subject at the end of the address in my mailto, and it worked" doesn't change the fact that it's an unreliable technique, any more than "I fucked my girlfriend with her on top, and she didn't get pregnant" changes the fact that it's quite possible for a girl to get pregnant that way. Eric Bohlman %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% In article <6m6fl2$b8f$1@dns.ktb.net>, bashley@ktb.not.gov [Bev] writes: > AAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH! > > Winshit and Mac only. No linux. Feh. > > They do look beautiful, though. No problems under Solaris 2.6 - I have installed 100's of TrueType fonts with 2.6, and can successfully get them to display in my applications (including GIMP and of course Netscape!). Suggestion to those UNIX people without a TT font engine, is to obtain "FreeType" which is a TT font engine clone for UNIX. It's on any GNU mirror.... Once again, Solaris 2.6 users already have a good TT font engine..... Rachel Polanskis -------------------------- Rachel Polanskis (rachel@photon.nepean.uws.edu.au) wrote on MDCCLII September MCMXCIII in : ++ ++ No problems under Solaris 2.6 - I have installed 100's of TrueType ++ fonts with 2.6, and can successfully get them to display in my ++ applications (including GIMP and of course Netscape!). You mean there's something wrong with 7x13 as font? Abigail -------------------------- In article <6maisn$iee$2@client3.news.psi.net>, Abigail wrote: >You mean there's something wrong with 7x13 as font? Heh. With everything going so (Wintel|MS)-centric, I'd fall out of my chair if I saw a page or style sheet with the following: font-family: '-adobe-courier-bold-r-normal-*-18-180-*-*-*-*-*-*' James T. Hsiao -------------------------- >Heh. With everything going so (Wintel|MS)-centric, I'd fall out of my >chair if I saw a page or style sheet with the following: > > font-family: '-adobe-courier-bold-r-normal-*-18-180-*-*-*-*-*-*' Does that work? JM "Now that _is_ kewl" Y -------------------------- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% On Tue, 16 Jun 1998 14:08:12 -0500, graball@ccsi.com (Dave Nalle) burbled: > One of the biggest problems web designers encounter is the lack of any > standard fonts which they can be sure their users have. Vanity Press, Thy Name is Web. :ar ------------------------------------ Actually, the biggest problem web designers encounter is that most of them fundamentally do not understand what they are "designing." REBUS %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% FrontPlague %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% On 18 Jun 1998 22:09:11 GMT, "REBUS" wrote: > >celigne@celigne.co.uk wrote in article <6lrp0e$uug$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>... >> In article <6lorvf$8ir$3@client3.news.psi.net>, >> abigail@fnx.com wrote: >> > Andrew Yeung (andreew@pacific.net.sg) wrote on MDCCXLV September >MCMXCIII >> > in : >> > ++ Place a note to the user, telling him/her to right-click and save >file >> > ++ as... watever.doc >> > >> > What if the user is left handed and uses a mirrorred mouse? You guys have mirrors on your mice? *kewl* >> What if you credit us left-handers with enough sense to automatically >> do this spatial translation? We're good at that! Okay, how many fingers am I holding up? >And we also like to mess with people's minds by using a left-handed mouse >with the buttons reversed. Damn! You lefties are ruthless! catnip %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%